British friesian bulls

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
Trouble is, if you put an out cross bull out with a lower pli because hes not got any chad in for example, everyone would be saying hes a sh*t bull because his pli is lower. It's one reason I hate the pli, sci and aci scales because good bulls and cows are considered not good because ahdb has decided this week that calving ease is a bit more important or fertility is more important than last week
I never look at PLI
 

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
But you have to remember if the Friesian breeders had kept the breed more productive ,instead of just breeding " nice " cows Holsteins would not be so dominant & Friesians such a minority breed with a very restrictive gene pool. We had Friesians and they just got smaller & fatter with less& less milk with each generation.The fault lies with supposed top breeders yrs ago obsessed with neat cows perfect udders & as a consequence they bred the milk out of the breed.Look at photos of the breed in the 80s & then look at the 50s and see the absence of that huge milk vein. Admittedly a much more correct cow but less productive
Still happens now.

Some fri bulls with big minus milk figures
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
spot-on, but it is that shape most of us want to get, on a hol, ideal, but we don't associate it with xbreeding, where we all know the first cross is the best, because both breeds are black and white, and described as hf. Nothing wrong with that at all, but the hol replaced the fr, because it offered a better cow, as with many other breeds, fr declined in numbers, and some breeders may well have gone for show cows. But now things are changing, the hol, for many. has gone to extreme, and we are looking for change. Xbreeding offers a choice, 1st x are usually brilliant, but the 2nd x is where the questions start, and there are so many, 3 or 4 way crosses out there, it would be much easier to have 1 good solid breed, that fits the requirement, and fr is the obvious solution. The 'ideal' cow is somewhere between the hol and the fr, and i suspect the hol breeders will produce will produce that 'type', they have a vast gene pool to select from.
just read the 2 posts above, sums the fr breed tendencies quite well, we had some pure pedigree fr, bought as bullers, they failed to impress, for the above reasons, and were sold i/c, for what we thought an amazing profit. The question still remains, why don't they publish the vital statistics of genomic fr bulls.
 
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LTH

Member
Livestock Farmer
we found an old dispersal catalogue of pedigree friesians from 83, there was cows in there that were doing 10,000l in 300 days with good solids. Have to agree about pli I never even look at it, ai companies all in competition with each other to have the top pli bulls.
 

Rhydwen1

Member
spot-on, but it is that shape most of us want to get, on a hol, ideal, but we don't associate it with xbreeding, where we all know the first cross is the best, because both breeds are black and white, and described as hf. Nothing wrong with that at all, but the hol replaced the fr, because it offered a better cow, as with many other breeds, fr declined in numbers, and some breeders may well have gone for show cows. But now things are changing, the hol, for many. has gone to extreme, and we are looking for change. Xbreeding offers a choice, 1st x are usually brilliant, but the 2nd x is where the questions start, and there are so many, 3 or 4 way crosses out there, it would be much easier to have 1 good solid breed, that fits the requirement, and fr is the obvious solution. The 'ideal' cow is somewhere between the hol and the fr, and i suspect the hol breeders will produce will produce that 'type', they have a vast gene pool to select from.
just read the 2 posts above, sums the fr breed tendencies quite well, we had some pure pedigree fr, bought as bullers, they failed to impress, for the above reasons, and were sold i/c, for what we thought an amazing profit. The question still remains, why don't they publish the vital statistics of genomic fr bulls.
I'm not sure why you keep saying they don't show the 'vital statistics' of genomic friesians. All genus and cogent friesians have there type traits clearly displayed on there websites and in all the catalogues I've seen.
 

Jdunn55

Member
We gave up on Freisians. The last ones are fat and lazy and as soon as they get in calf they stop milking. They will probably live forever. Unless their feet fall off.
But you have to remember if the Friesian breeders had kept the breed more productive ,instead of just breeding " nice " cows Holsteins would not be so dominant & Friesians such a minority breed with a very restrictive gene pool. We had Friesians and they just got smaller & fatter with less& less milk with each generation.The fault lies with supposed top breeders yrs ago obsessed with neat cows perfect udders & as a consequence they bred the milk out of the breed.Look at photos of the breed in the 80s & then look at the 50s and see the absence of that huge milk vein. Admittedly a much more correct cow but less productive
No offence to both of you, but it sounds like you were using the wrong bulls. Friesians can and do milk, I've witnessed it with my very own eyes. But more importantly they milk from low input systems.
You have to remember if the breeders hadn't bred for nice looking cows you would be here saying that although friesians milk well they look like sh*te with their ice cream cone teats and unders dragging on the floor
 
No offence to both of you, but it sounds like you were using the wrong bulls. Friesians can and do milk, I've witnessed it with my very own eyes. But more importantly they milk from low input systems.
You have to remember if the breeders hadn't bred for nice looking cows you would be here saying that although friesians milk well they look like sh*te with their ice cream cone teats and unders dragging on the floor
Seems like most of the dairy farmers were using the wrong bulls, not just me & Spudley, or the Friesian would,nt have declined in popularity so much
 

Jdunn55

Member
Seems like most of the dairy farmers were using the wrong bulls, not just me & Spudley, or the Friesian would,nt have declined in popularity so much
I dont believe that the breed declined because of it's own fault but more because holsteins took over. They came in and said all the advantages of more milk (vital in a country that at the time was mostly liquid milk contracts), without losing pedigree status and no disadvantages! Of course there were indeed disadvantages but they weren't advertised at the time.
How much milk are you wanting from a friesian? If you chuck a tmr with maize and silage with plenty of cake theres absolutely no reason she wont do what a holstein would providing you've got the right breeding behind your cows. Similarly if you want milk from grass with little concentrates she will do that better than anything else whereas a holstein could struggle.
 

More to life

Member
Location
Somerset
I dont believe that the breed declined because of it's own fault but more because holsteins took over. They came in and said all the advantages of more milk (vital in a country that at the time was mostly liquid milk contracts), without losing pedigree status and no disadvantages! Of course there were indeed disadvantages but they weren't advertised at the time.
How much milk are you wanting from a friesian? If you chuck a tmr with maize and silage with plenty of cake theres absolutely no reason she wont do what a holstein would providing you've got the right breeding behind your cows. Similarly if you want milk from grass with little concentrates she will do that better than anything else whereas a holstein could struggle.
They have there place but high input tmr is definitely not it.
 

Jdunn55

Member
They have there place but high input tmr is definitely not it.
Completely agree but they can do it, but holsteins would be better in this system as they would do it more efficiently. In the same way holsteins can do low input grazing but no where near as efficiently as a friesian can. But either way they can both do each system so it's not fair to say that they cant. I was just making the point that friesians can do high yields
 

More to life

Member
Location
Somerset
Completely agree but they can do it, but holsteins would be better in this system as they would do it more efficiently. In the same way holsteins can do low input grazing but no where near as efficiently as a friesian can. But either way they can both do each system so it's not fair to say that they cant. I was just making the point that friesians can do high yields

depends on your definition of high yields
 

LTH

Member
Livestock Farmer
Wouldn’t mind using like 60-70% Friesian bull to add milk and size and different blood to certain cows, the grazing bulls are all mainly Holstein rather than Friesian. But never see any other than the nerd water one on Dorset cattle breeders
 
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