British Sugars Penultimate Sugar Campaign. 2021/22

[Hindsight]

Are they making money? Losses on the sugar division in 2 out of last 5 years i thought was mentioned last week in that meeting (2nd hand info). ABF will pull the plug if they can't make any money and then there will be no beet grown at all......

Does sugar business include topsoil / associated parts? Are they real losses or accounting losses? Do / would you believe them?

On the flip side, if bs made a loss, would / should the grower care?

Should growers repeatedly grow a loss making crop, or one that causes so much soil damage, for "old times sake"? Bs will cart out the "all in it together" line again, and folk will grow it to keep grandad happy.

If you've not got money invested in kit, or land that can be fixed really easily, just get out now!

I concurr with Teslacoils.

But with my academic hat on, there is a broader societal consideration at play, for which we can use the situation with sugar as an example (that is way above the decisions by an individual farmer or even a processor / marketer such as ABF, as they are and should be driven by immediate personal market and financial circumstances). If society (the population of the UK) want and require sugar where is the appropriate place for that to be grown and processed. I did post that question on a couple of the anti neonic Twitter threads. Message back seemed to be 'we prefer bees and not to poison our environment' When I asked back what about the imported sugar I received few if any replies. Complex conflicting issues are difficult for folk to handle. Beet in UK has reached another crossroads. Has in past but managed to trundle onto the through road - maybe not this time.

 

[Mixedupfarmer]

Does sugar business include topsoil / associated parts? Are they real losses or accounting losses? Do / would you believe them?

On the flip side, if bs made a loss, would / should the grower care?

Should growers repeatedly grow a loss making crop, or one that causes so much soil damage, for "old times sake"? Bs will cart out the "all in it together" line again, and folk will grow it to keep grandad happy.

If you've not got money invested in kit, or land that can be fixed really easily, just get out now!

Exactly my thoughts. Do the bs loses include all the co products?

 

[SilliamWhale]

On the continent farmers own many of the sugar firms. Belgium and France it is quite normal I believe?

To be fair to BS they also need to make a profit. Why shouldn't they. If they don't they cant reinvest and I therefore am resigned to loosing the industry - they've said they cant afford any more and that's fair enough. They don't have to. Its a shame to see this industry go and even more sad to accept that the public will be oblivious to greater imports from areas such as Brazil.

The only thing is cane has always struck me as way way more efficient

 

[texelburger]

Noticed that a few times with men in well paid jobs. Jim Mosley is also a ‘me, me, me’.

Its all about egos.They think they’re top executives whereas,in reality,they have positions in small farming entities compared to some of the corporate high fliers.

 

[ollie989898]

The only thing is cane has always struck me as way way more efficient

I suspect that is because it is. It's a C4 plant for starters and is perennial...

 

[teslacoils]

It's the same system employed by any very large power Vs farmers. Supermarkets churn out beef / milk contracts that crush small farms or allow only slightly above the poverty line existence and were supposed to be grateful. While paying big dividends, and ensuring their staff get living wages that increase far higher than farm gate prices.

Only by farmers working together; proper union strenth; or farmer - owned vertical integration can this be stopped.

 

[Steevo]

Next British Sugar will be rolling out the “not for profit” line!

 

[Clive]

i know very little about sugar beet so sorry if this is a silly question / comment!

but are they seriously saying importing beet is more viable than uk grown ?

 

[DrWazzock]

It’s make me sad to think of the industry stopping but maybe it’s just unavoidable global economics. If the inputs sectors helped out by taking a bit less, and my accountant, council tax, insurance, spare parts etc then it wouldn’t be so bad but they just keep raising their prices.
I like growing beet. But I am beginning to think it’s a bit like coal mining. It grieved me to see all that stopped but stop it did.
What happens though if cane then has a bad year through global warming, drought or some pestilence. Will we as a country be up a creek without a paddle? Does anybody even care? Does anybody ever consider there is a national security and strategic value these industries?

 

[7610 super q]

It doesn't take long for folks to forget/ not give a f**k.
Found some rationing books recently from 1954.
By 1984 the plebs were whining about butter mountains, wine lakes etc.... and that was the beginning of the end.
30 years from grateful to couldn't give a f**k.

You would think however, in an era of carbon foot twattery, home grown produce would kick the idea of importing from Brazil into touch.

 

[davidroberts30]

It doesn't take long for folks to forget/ not give a fudge.
Found some rationing books recently from 1954.
By 1984 the plebs were whining about butter mountains, wine lakes etc.... and that was the beginning of the end.
30 years from grateful to couldn't give a fudge.

You would think however, in an era of carbon foot twattery, home grown produce would kick the idea of importing from Brazil into touch.

your right folks have a short memory
look back 12 months........
food shortages etc now they dont give a toss

 

[TheTallGuy]

British sugar are in a monopoly position, if they can't make money in that circumstance they are a fudging shower- lets not beat around the bush here. They are then owned by ABF who are so large they might as well be in an even larger monopoly position.

I'll say it again: my heart bleeds. No one is forcing them to even process or sell the stuff, in fact, there is no law that says they can't buy in cane syrup from abroad and refine that and flog it, only they wouldn't be able to put a Union Jack on it.

The usual blarg about being a commodity producer etc etc- it seems to work for the remainder of the global sugar industry who also have the same issues to contend with?

Now then, is it true or not that British sugar have received substantial monies out of the CAP over the years or is that false?

Except that they aren't in a monopoly position in terms of their products - I see other brands of sugar & sugar products on the shelves in the shops. With retail accounting for a relatively low percentage of sugar, the bulk of customers have little interest in whether the product comes with a nice little Union Flag on the package!

 

[TheTallGuy]

i know very little about sugar beet so sorry if this is a silly question / comment!

but are they seriously saying importing beet is more viable than uk grown ?

I think the point is that they are struggling to compete against cane sugar imports, which may or may not be grown without much care for the land.

 

[ollie989898]

Except that they aren't in a monopoly position in terms of their products - I see other brands of sugar & sugar products on the shelves in the shops. With retail accounting for a relatively low percentage of sugar, the bulk of customers have little interest in whether the product comes with a nice little Union Flag on the package!

Remind me how many other sugar refiners are at work in the UK??

 

[ollie989898]

i know very little about sugar beet so sorry if this is a silly question / comment!

but are they seriously saying importing beet is more viable than uk grown ?

It's not imported beet that is moved around internationally (though I presume it could be since beet will keep weeks in a heap?), it's the highly concentrated syrup that can be shipped very readily if you want to refine it in another country- if you don't want to just import the actual sugar in its finished crystalline format.

The sugar beet is hauled into the factories and the juice is extracted to obtain the syrup. This is then stored in big tanks which is what keeps the actual factories working when there is no need being harvested or hauled in for the remainder of the year.

Like anything it's a volume game and basically a food/industrial process so I suspect the UK isn't really an ideal place to be doing it given the cost of doing business here, labour, tax, environmental regulations and energy costs etc- basically the same as what steel makers and the like regularly complain about.

 

[Breckland Boy]

Remind me how many other sugar refiners are at work in the UK??

Tate and Lyle

 

[ollie989898]

Tate and Lyle

I see, and how much of the UK beet crop is Tate and Lyle handling each year?

 

[Flat 10]

Does sugar business include topsoil / associated parts? Are they real losses or accounting losses? Do / would you believe them?

On the flip side, if bs made a loss, would / should the grower care?

Should growers repeatedly grow a loss making crop, or one that causes so much soil damage, for "old times sake"? Bs will cart out the "all in it together" line again, and folk will grow it to keep grandad happy.

If you've not got money invested in kit, or land that can be fixed really easily, just get out now!

Yes to all of the first questions and why would anyone grow a loss making crop? Yes last year I lost money on some fields but that’s not happened before.

i know very little about sugar beet so sorry if this is a silly question / comment!

but are they seriously saying importing beet is more viable than uk grown ?

no. But imported cane probably is

 

[Breckland Boy]

Tate and Lyle import raw sugar (cane) and refine it.

 

[ollie989898]

Tate and Lyle import raw sugar (cane) and refine it.

I asked how much of the UK crop T and L are buying and handling. You can see what I am getting at here. BS have a monopoly position and control the marketplace because they have the supply tied up.