Broken mouthed ewes on twitter

[livestock 1]

That would depend on what you sell the draft ewes for. After three crops of lambs, they still have a decent value, selling to those that are prepared to accept the losses of an older flock in order to buy cheaper replacements.

Doesn't @dlm do something similar?

The way I read it was they were UO at three crop. If selling as drafts often it’s a poisoned chalice trying to catch some extra money doing that like diminishing returns where drafts go up and replacements go up accordingly unless you have time to go to many sales and stand there or put a man in who you can TRUST!

 

[Nithsdale]

It’s worth remembering that there’s a lot of farms mainly lowland farms kill ewes in July after the lambs have gone. This will distort replacement figures you quote. It helps their cash flow and means that they have less sheep to look after at certain times. Also let’s accountants and banks see a profit rather than looking at flock depreciation something that many can’t get their heads round as in the figures.

I'm not aware of any flock around this area buying gimmers to then sell the whole lot the following summer? Now that really is the way to lose money.

Plenty of ewe lamb buyers do it... and some dabble at draft ewes. But not gimmers.

 

[Llmmm]

I tend to keep if they are fit & correct, as I believe longevity is a valuable trait to breed for in a closed flock.

However, it has been shown that %loss increases dramatically after 5 (unsurprisingly). By culling everything at 5 you would reduce ewe losses, and get higher cull income. Obviously that would come at the cost of buying more replacements though, if that’s your bag.

Totally agree but is there much of a cost .keeping old ewes is a lottery while the might be ok at tupping they can look quite different in spring and after surely they will have paid for themselves.

 

[livestock 1]

I'm not aware of any flock around this area buying gimmers to then sell the whole lot the following summer? Now that really is the way to lose money.

Plenty of ewe lamb buyers do it... and some dabble at draft ewes. But not gimmers.

You are distorting what I’m saying. You were talking about a flock of mules replacing 25% per annum.
Now you’ve decided it’s gimmers killed the year after. Something new to me that one. Ha
There’s a lot of good correct ewes sent through the big auctions to kill in July August.
This will increase replacement figures.

 

[Nithsdale]

You are distorting what I’m saying. You were talking about a flock of mules replacing 25% per annum.
Now you’ve decided it’s gimmers killed the year after. Something new to me that one. Ha
There’s a lot of good correct ewes sent through the big auctions to kill in July August.
This will increase replacement figures.

You're the one going on about flocks getting rid of their ewes in July? I just said I don't know anyone who does that.
I questioned you. Where have I said that's whats happening?



But right, so you're saying Mule flocks kill good, correct ewes. This is, you say, to put a profit in the books and aid cash flow, after you said it isn't sustainable to have ewes going at young ages...

 

[livestock 1]

You're the one going on about flocks getting rid of their ewes in July? I just said I don't know anyone who does that.
I questioned you. Where have I said that's whats happening?



But right, so you're saying Mule flocks kill good, correct ewes. This is, you say, to put a profit in the books and aid cash flow, after you said it isn't sustainable to have ewes going at young ages...

Now I didn’t say they were three crop. You are the man for that.
Not did I say they were gimmer shearlings.Which would be ridiculous.
Nor did I say it was just mule flocks alone that kill ewes in July although some do.
What’s sustainable and sense on a hill farm isn’t the same story in East Anglia

 

[Woolless]

I'm sure that there will be folks out there breeding mules which will keep their teeth and live to a ripe old age and if you can find them, they will certainly be sheep worth having. Unfortunately, most of the mule trade will hinge on facial markings and presumably sheer size where commercial points may be an afterthought.

 

[sheepwise]

Bought a elite abermax ram few years ago, top figures but left the slowest growing lambs I've ever had, complained to innovis ,didn't want to know ,used him over 3years ,same every year

Tups are like women, there’s more to them than just good figures!

 

[livestock 1]

The mule is probably the most popular commercial ewe I know of.
There will be tens of thousands of mule shearlings and gimmer lambs heading to new homes in the next few weeks
I would be very surprised if all of those buyers are wrong

 

[glensman]

I'm sure that there will be folks out there breeding mules which will keep their teeth and live to a ripe old age and if you can find them, they will certainly be sheep worth having. Unfortunately, most of the mule trade will hinge on facial markings and presumably sheer size where commercial points may be an afterthought.

The thing is the best mules are medium sized with good skins, that type is as good as a ewe can be ime.

 

[Northumberland]

It isn't uncommon. When you go to these sales year on year, and you know the farms buying - you know how many they buy every year and how many ewes they're running... replacing around 25% is definitely the norm.

Replacement rate of 25% will mean the mules are lasting over 4 years when you account for deaths mastitis barren ect ect.
Still expensive depreciation

 

[unlacedgecko]

Replacement rate of 25% will mean the mules are lasting over 4 years when you account for deaths mastitis barren ect ect.
Still expensive depreciation

it will mean SOME ewes are lasting over 4 years. But it will also mean SOME ewes are lasting less than 4 years. Deaths, barrens, mastitis are all part of the depreciation. But a dead ewe deprecates to 0 rather quickly.

 

[Nithsdale]

Replacement rate of 25% will mean the mules are lasting over 4 years when you account for deaths mastitis barren ect ect.
Still expensive depreciation

Some will, some won't. You're right.

They don't miraculously get to 4 and drop dead or loss their teeth. But in the laws of averages...

 

[muleman]

I'm not aware of any flock around this area buying gimmers to then sell the whole lot the following summer? Now that really is the way to lose money.

Plenty of ewe lamb buyers do it... and some dabble at draft ewes. But not gimmers.

You arent aware of anybody that actually likes mules and finds them better and more profitable than any other breed......but believe it or not they are out there, the mule isnt the most popular and widespread sheep in the country for no reason you know...or because it has a pretty face

 

[Nithsdale]

Now I didn’t say they were three crop. You are the man for that.
Not did I say they were gimmer shearlings.Which would be ridiculous.
Nor did I say it was just mule flocks alone that kill ewes in July although some do.
What’s sustainable and sense on a hill farm isn’t the same story in East Anglia

They like to talk don’t they. I have mules. I have done for a lot of years. Three crops wouldn’t be sustainable for me.

You did say 3 crops. And I agreed it'd be unsustainable.

Are you even reading what I'm writing in relation to what you've already said or is your arse in that much of a fluster

 

[Northumberland]

Some will, some won't. You're right.

They don't miraculously get to 4 and drop dead or loss their teeth. But in the laws of averages...

Yes but at 3% geld 3%deaths 7%mastitis other.
Means saying they only last four seasons is false?

 

[Nithsdale]

Yes but at 3% geld 3%deaths 7%mastitis other.
Means saying they only last four seasons is false?

I never said they ONLY last 4 years, I said most flocks replace 25% each year. As I clearly said, laws of averages

 

[Woolless]

The mule is probably the most popular commercial ewe I know of.
There will be tens of thousands of mule shearlings and gimmer lambs heading to new homes in the next few weeks
I would be very surprised if all of those buyers are wrong

Of course they're not all wrong. If you get the right ones in the right system, I'm sure that they'll do a good job. But that is a major testament to the power of hybrid vigour IMO. The horned breeds have mucked about with BS like plucking white hairs and focusing or horn angles for far too long. I don't know a lot about BFL breeding but I'm sure it's a lot more art than science. I believe the breeders doing any proper recording are a tiny minority (and big plaudits to them!). And then there's the mysterious appearance of the 'crossing type'...

 

[Northumberland]

Trust me when I say plenty of 2016 born Mules wont have made it this far...
[/QUOTE]

4 is about right for a Mule anyway. Most Mule flocks will have to replace 1/4 of their ewes every year as it is

 

[Nithsdale]

Trust me when I say plenty of 2016 born Mules wont have made it this far...

[/QUOTE]


Where in what you've quoted did I say there are none last longer than 4 years

You are confirming I did indeed say what I said. Laws of averages, flocks replacing 25% of their flock every year means 4 years is about right.