Builders / trades people on a day rate

[suffolksmallholder]

Tradesmans rates are £18 to £20 per hour with breaks. There is a skill shortage all over the country & that's the going rate. (back to 1988 rates & about time too) The most important thing is to make sure you're hiring a tradesman/woman & not a chancer. This is too old but keep an eye on them. No texting, no incoming phone calls whilst they're working for you. OK at lunch time but be strict here!
SS

 

[Steevo]

Tradesmans rates are £18 to £20 per hour with breaks. There is a skill shortage all over the country & that's the going rate. (back to 1988 rates & about time too) The most important thing is to make sure you're hiring a tradesman/woman & not a chancer. This is too old but keep an eye on them. No texting, no incoming phone calls whilst they're working for you. OK at lunch time but be strict here!
SS

You summed that up perfectly! There isn't a shortage of tradesmen.....but a shortage of good, skilled tradesmen.

The good ones can charge ££££££ and that attracts others in who do half a job (or less!) for much lower rates. Worst of both worlds.

 

[honeyend]

As I understand it a tradesperson working freelance a day rate is self employed and supplies their own tools. Wear and tear would be classes as expenses and is tax deductible like their van, fuel, work clothes etc. If you are paying for their tools they become employed.https://www.gov.uk/expenses-if-youre-self-employed
We have employed quite a lot over the last few years. If they need a special tool its hired by us and any sundries used with it were paid by us, but the bill is in our name. Any materials are paid by us and go though our account that we check.
If they are employed by you want the bills so you can claim any tax allowances. So ask him if you can have the bill and see what he says, just so you know what you can claim for tax.

 

[Grouse]

It depends on the contractor - some I have paid day rate for labour only and anything else is extra. Others day rate includes all their tools but materials and consumable are extra. The lesson is that this needs sorting before the job is started - I too have been caught out but quickly learned

 

[phillipe]

All tool wear is priced into day rate ,same as digger hire dumper hire, etc

 

[Adeptandy]

All tool wear is priced into day rate ,same as digger hire dumper hire, etc

Same here, don't do day rate, but charge by the hour, clock off for any breaks BUT NOT if the customer comes asking questions about how I'm doing something and wants to just chat. All tools and wear and tear are covered by the hourly rate, the OP is getting close to £30/hr for a builder, thats Gas Engineers rates around here

 

[Lincs Lass]

From my side of invoicing ,,I try to work out before hand quantity of materials required with a discretionary percentage for unknown items ,,I dont know what I might find if im digging up for a patio and the existing drainage is shot .
With fencing using panels and post ,I can take a measurement and work out how many its going to need and as I get them quite often I can pretty much put a quote together there and then and because I work on a fixed price per section ,its easy enough to work out the total cost .
depending how far Im traveling ,I base my hourly rate on distance ,that way it covers my fuel .
Now as for tools which are my own ,,I dont charge for them ,,only for hired in which is only ever a mini digger or tha dumper .
Skips obviously get charged to the customer as I've had to pay for them first .
The one thing I do invoice for is specialist fixings of cement additives.
Anybody that is charging for saw blades of stihl saw blades is taking the mickey ,they can absorb that cost over other jobs,,I meen I buy top quality diamond blades at over £100 each but it will last all year even with plenty of use .
If Im buying new tools ,its for my benefit to make a job go easier ,,not to pass the cost of it onto a customer ,they wont care what you are using as long as the job is getting done

 

[wdah/him]

never did priced work, worked on a price per hour, and tools etc included in that, appart from 16 stone saw and blade, core drill and one off tools that most others hire we charge for separate, for less that hire rate but core drill was per hole, generator was charged for by petrol use only.

if a blade tool broke through unknown reason we would decide if it was ur fault or not, ie if it hit something and broke or beyond use u paid-chiainsaw chain, circular saw hitting something other than wood and damaging the blade and u hadn't mentioned it etc, all within reason

 

[d williams]

So when I get someone in to cut my hedges I should pay for wear on the flails?

It should be in the hourly rate on hedges but if asked to clear some unknown briars and something in there that shouldn't be then yes a charge should be passed on

 

[d williams]

That is what I am getting at - his daily rate isn't pure profit it includes an element of his tools, their wear and tear, consumables etc.

I like to think I am a reasonable person, if he needed to buy something out of the ordinary that he wouldn't use again then I would agree to pay for it if it couldn't be hired.

It sounds as if you are being fair and maybe he is just ask him to justify these extras
If his day rate is £150 and he's used a diamond disc costing £150 one day then you may see where he's coming from for him to have been there 6 weeks without any question so far you must both get on do far!
You have the local tractor group out and every job there's a consumable charge even if they've just come to look at something standard cost above hourly rate

 

[Sid]

Has he got a portaloo on site? Is he charging you for that and toilet paper?

Every bill i get from someone doing a job now had bloody consumables on the bottom.

 

[Steevo]

Every bill i get from someone doing a job now had bloody consumables on the bottom.

Don't forget the "environmental charge"!

 

[kill]

Has he got a portaloo on site? Is he charging you for that and toilet paper?

Every bill i get from someone doing a job now had bloody consumables on the bottom.

Bugger. I missed an opportunity there

 

[pettsy]

No texting, no incoming phone calls whilst they're working for you. OK at lunch time but be strict here!
SS

There’s got to be a bit of give and take. Treating a tradesperson like a child is surely the fastest way to cause problems

 

[honeyend]

This is going to sound like a cliché, but of all the trades people we used over the last three years the most hard working have been Polish. They turn up on time, they do not do tea breaks, usually work through lunch and the last one worked till 8pm to finish the job in the time scale un asked and do a good job. Best of all they clear up and put things in the bin.
My dad was a builder from a family of builders when they did every trade and I grew up around building sites and cement mixers I had always assumed that everyone worked the same. He took a pride in his work, loved his tools, some I still have, and cleared up after himself. He built my sisters house in 1976, and it may need a refurb but everything still works.
I have brickies empty the rubbish out of their car in to my yard daily, the skip was about 10ft from them. The electrician that shoved sandwich wrapper and other rubbish in the cavity wall, and the plumber who fitted thermostats that he didn't know how to work and the expert joiner that managed to saw an oak bannister in half in the middle. It was a bit like Only Fools' with him wandering round looking for 'the other' long bit of wood, when he had just sawn it in half for no obvious reason.
I always know much things cost, and have a rough idea of how they should be done, I go on line and look at what ever technical guides there are and ask them how they are going to do the job which often is revealing. Its not about treating them as children but when you are often spending thousands of pounds respect goes both ways and anyone can set up in business as apart from gas and electric which have exams and a register there seems to be not way of judging if the person you are using is competent.
But back to the original question. When you set up any business you factor all you costs into your business plan when you work out your charges or price. The customer has no control of whether you are knocking a nail in with a £5 or a £20 hammer, they are paying you to knock the nail in why should they pay extra if your Ferrari of a hammer breaks, or perhaps you have invested in a nail gun and you are knocking nails in a quarter of the time, in which case you could say I will do this in quicker time but it will cost you the same amount. The purchase of the hammer is a tax deductible expense, so if the tax man gives you the money back have you paid for it? The nails being knocked in are someone's expense, on a daily rate I would say its the customer and I would go and buy them. Then if I am claiming the expense back for repairs and maintenance it will go through my books.

 

[Woolly]

Tradesmans rates are £18 to £20 per hour with breaks. There is a skill shortage all over the country & that's the going rate. (back to 1988 rates & about time too) The most important thing is to make sure you're hiring a tradesman/woman & not a chancer. This is too old but keep an eye on them. No texting, no incoming phone calls whilst they're working for you. OK at lunch time but be strict here!
SS

"£18-£20/hr with breaks" - so what breaks, and how long, would you expect to pay for?

 

[suffolksmallholder]

"£18-£20/hr with breaks" - so what breaks, and how long, would you expect to pay for?

I can only quote the 1990's as I was site working then. Up & out of bed 05.45, breakfast-- porridge. Arrive on site 07.30 have a cuppa & discuss the days work & how the gang were missing home/wives/family (Wonderful mainly Southern Irish crew) barsteward Ryanair charging too much for fares....

08.00 start. 10.00 to 10.15 tea-up. 12.30 to 13.00 lunch break sarnies/soup whatever you have in your piece bag.
16.00 finish. Dress up in travelling clothes, leap on Moto-Guzzi V50 & home by 17.00 even if I was in Slough creating Tesco's! Feed & walk dogs, 19.00 supper. Bath & in bed by 20.00. Repeat.

Daily rate £160.00. Paid on time. Trusted to get to different-out-of-the-way-sites at a moments notice as I was multi-skilled & reliable!
I was a http://lovell.co.uk/ apprentice & we had a fab tea-hut, with a fellow who made all the workers tea. Same hours.
I'm running my smallholding & semi-working now. Hours are the same! Ah, I may lie in 'till 07.30 but I still like to get to bed by 20.00 hrs
I'm making mental pictorial portfolio of Polish brickwork that i've come across over the last decade @honeyend. OK , I'll agree totally they do work hard but really the quality isn't there at all.
Thame (Oxfordshire) library being a prime example. Just really, really 'orrible!

There's a reason for this but just to say; When you've had five years of good wages & regular work (see the £160 pd rate above) & the UK building trade decides to halve this in the mid 1990's but take on Polish workers for £80pd. How does a tradesman pay the mortgage? The bank has lent on the previous earnings & things were looking good. A lot of my contemporarys were caught out big-time. We were in our 30's then so could take the fall & simply get another job & there became a time when numerous sites were only operated by Eastern Europeans. Brightlingsea (Essex) marina development is a classic & that was never finished. Then they all went home! Hence the current skill shortage. Some got out completely & even though the pay is now back up to the old rate those who were 30 then are 60 now & just can't do site work. I can't! My knees, hip, back are f**ked! My actual work, on the other hand is ok
As was said on BBC Radio 4 just last week; The retirement age for construction workers was raised to 68, could have only been thought up by someone in an office
SS

 

[Adeptandy]

Bugger. I missed an opportunity there

I haven’t [emoji6]

 

[S J H]

£200 per day, 8 - 4.



I'm happy to pay for the items on the invoices such as silicone, timber, pipe fittings etc. I won't even argue that it is highly doubtful that he has used 2 rolls of PTFE tape, or even a £3.99 set of paint roller sleeves.
But I think a £50 bill for a DeWalt circular saw blade and pack of bits is taking the pee.

Good to see that everyone is in agreement.

I can only quote the 1990's as I was site working then. Up & out of bed 05.45, breakfast-- porridge. Arrive on site 07.30 have a cuppa & discuss the days work & how the gang were missing home/wives/family (Wonderful mainly Southern Irish crew) barsteward Ryanair charging too much for fares....

08.00 start. 10.00 to 10.15 tea-up. 12.30 to 13.00 lunch break sarnies/soup whatever you have in your piece bag.
16.00 finish. Dress up in travelling clothes, leap on Moto-Guzzi V50 & home by 17.00 even if I was in Slough creating Tesco's! Feed & walk dogs, 19.00 supper. Bath & in bed by 20.00. Repeat.

Daily rate £160.00. Paid on time. Trusted to get to different-out-of-the-way-sites at a moments notice as I was multi-skilled & reliable!
I was a http://lovell.co.uk/ apprentice & we had a fab tea-hut, with a fellow who made all the workers tea. Same hours.
I'm running my smallholding & semi-working now. Hours are the same! Ah, I may lie in 'till 07.30 but I still like to get to bed by 20.00 hrs
I'm making mental pictorial portfolio of Polish brickwork that i've come across over the last decade @honeyend. OK , I'll agree totally they do work hard but really the quality isn't there at all.
Thame (Oxfordshire) library being a prime example. Just really, really 'orrible!

There's a reason for this but just to say; When you've had five years of good wages & regular work (see the £160 pd rate above) & the UK building trade decides to halve this in the mid 1990's but take on Polish workers for £80pd. How does a tradesman pay the mortgage? The bank has lent on the previous earnings & things were looking good. A lot of my contemporarys were caught out big-time. We were in our 30's then so could take the fall & simply get another job & there became a time when numerous sites were only operated by Eastern Europeans. Brightlingsea (Essex) marina development is a classic & that was never finished. Then they all went home! Hence the current skill shortage. Some got out completely & even though the pay is now back up to the old rate those who were 30 then are 60 now & just can't do site work. I can't! My knees, hip, back are fudgeed! My actual work, on the other hand is ok
As was said on BBC Radio 4 just last week; The retirement age for construction workers was raised to 68, could have only been thought up by someone in an office
SS

I think 68 year old men are needed on sites, I think there's plenty of blokes that age that can still pay their way and give some experience.

 

[Land Rover]

The entire tradesperson doing work thing is just a total nightmare .
Spending a good sum of money to improve your way of life / surroundings has turned into a bit of a nightmare :
I'm a bit scunnered with it all . If it was 50 quid here and a hundred there I could probably put it down to experience , but it's seldom less than 500 quid for a job that I can't do myself .
Find a good guy and stick with him and his recommended trade friends .