building a closed flock from what we have

[paul&mandy]

We have Suffolk x mules, buy in all our replacements but really fancy a closed flock apart from buying in rams but easier to isolate them.
It got me thinking, we need to out a lot of older rams that if I were to put X ram over some of our current ewes what should I do to keep a maternal type breeding ewe? Then there's the cross again with their female offspring and so on obviously going away from the Suffolk x or do you cross maternal then paternal and so on.
All our lambs go direct to slaughter.
Just an idea to punt out to you all.
Hope this doesn't sound like a silly question

 

[neilo]

What do you want to end up with?

What about buying in replacements for one more year, as a nucleus to breed replacements from, thus getting away from the ‘Suffolk effect’ more quickly?

Unless you want to go down the shedding route (in which case buy a nucleus of shedders in), get a bunch of Romney’s and breed pure, or a bunch of Texel x Mules to cross with a maternal breed of your choice.

 

[paul&mandy]

What do you want to end up with?

What about buying in replacements for one more year, as a nucleus to breed replacements from, thus getting away from the ‘Suffolk effect’ more quickly?

Unless you want to go down the shedding route (in which case buy a nucleus of shedders in), get a bunch of Romney’s and breed pure, or a bunch of Texel x Mules to cross with a maternal breed of your choice.

We like to get some lambs away early before the place is a bog then finish the rest on roots where we can. I think rommneys take a little longer to finish?
I don't really care what the ewe is, it just needs to be a good mother and finish its lambs off grass as quickly as possible.
Its the starting point of the Suffolk x mule and whether this breed could be a starting point, already have some shearlings to add into the flock.
Again this is just me thinking out loud while topping on auto steer!!

 

[Sandpit Farm]

We like to get some lambs away early before the place is a bog then finish the rest on roots where we can. I think rommneys take a little longer to finish?
I don't really care what the ewe is, it just needs to be a good mother and finish its lambs off grass as quickly as possible.
Its the starting point of the Suffolk x mule and whether this breed could be a starting point, already have some shearlings to add into the flock.
Again this is just me thinking out loud while topping on auto steer!!

To be honest you could probably get a Suffolk that would produce something more maternal than the ewes you have in your base flock. Like Neil says, you’d need to start with a maternal base ewe. There are Suffolks with decent maternal figures (NZ or otherwise).

Could probably find you some Roussin/Blackie or Roussin/Cheviot if you wanted to retain the early lambing but have a thriftier ewe. You could use Texel or Charollais to provide the meat cross. Going back to the Roussin may not give you much vigour.

Alternatively, you could go down the Dorset route. You could cross them if you wanted added vigour.

 

[sticky]

I thought you wanted rid of all those lazy suffolks for something else.

 

[yorkshire8]

Just buy mules !!!

 

[CopperBeech]

Before you close anything do blood testing, no point building owt on dodgy foundations.

 

[spin cycle]

sell you this fella.....7 yrs old but fitter than a shearling.....sperm count/ vigour vet checked and thru the roof......lambs are born a 'day old'....ridiculously vigorous
but
o grade lambs and providence not fancy

 

[paul&mandy]

I thought you wanted rid of all those lazy suffolks for something else.

Your right, they are lazy, but... after the lambing stress they have got some bloody cracking lambs at foot.
Hard one

 

[paul&mandy]

Before you close anything do blood testing, no point building owt on dodgy foundations.

we do already, don't ask me what for, wife dealt with it.

 

[paul&mandy]

Just buy mules !!!

I might but still stuck with a hell of a lot of Suffolk x, probably just carry on for now but just putting it out there before I buy some rams.

 

[sticky]

Your right, they are lazy, but... after the lambing stress they have got some bloody cracking lambs at foot.
Hard one

Pics

 

[neilo]

Your right, they are lazy, but... after the lambing stress they have got some bloody cracking lambs at foot.
Hard one

But how many more lambs would you now have if you started with better mothers, quite apart from the stress at lambing time from that ‘laziness’?

You’ll still have a ruck of those Suffolk’s to deal with for several years yet, so why prolong it even more by keeping daughters from the damned things?

Plenty of recorded maternal rams out there that will give you good mother’s, then cross a fast growing terminal of your choice over them to get fast growing lambs if you want. Even a Suffolk if you must, or presumably still have them.

 

[Woolless]

But how many more lambs would you now have if you started with better mothers, quite apart from the stress at lambing time from that ‘laziness’?

You’ll still have a ruck of those Suffolk’s to deal with for several years yet, so why prolong it even more by keeping daughters from the damned things?

Plenty of recorded maternal rams out there that will give you good mother’s, then cross a fast growing terminal of your choice over them to get fast growing lambs if you want. Even a Suffolk if you must, or presumably still have them.

I would agree with this. If you lamb outdoors, Suffolk mules are just not the sheep for the job. Buy something more maternal, add a decent maternal tup then get busy with the ear notchers so that the flock improves every year.

 

[Bill dog]

Your right, they are lazy, but... after the lambing stress they have got some bloody cracking lambs at foot.
Hard one

Regardless of how smart your lambs are, I think you should re read your posts from lambing time. I could feel your frustration and misery oozing through the pores of my phone !
Life’s too short I would say . But as what to use to cross away from the Suffolk, a Romney if you can cope with lots of wool. A good Lleyn , or a highlander.
Or try some of @easyram1 ’s new maternal nz ewes , the easy dam .
Or just find better more maternal Suffolk’s !

 

[Ysgythan]

We have Suffolk x mules, buy in all our replacements but really fancy a closed flock apart from buying in rams but easier to isolate them.
It got me thinking, we need to out a lot of older rams that if I were to put X ram over some of our current ewes what should I do to keep a maternal type breeding ewe? Then there's the cross again with their female offspring and so on obviously going away from the Suffolk x or do you cross maternal then paternal and so on.
All our lambs go direct to slaughter.
Just an idea to punt out to you all.
Hope this doesn't sound like a silly question

Texel
Lleyn
Repeat

 

[unlacedgecko]

We have Suffolk x mules, buy in all our replacements but really fancy a closed flock apart from buying in rams but easier to isolate them.
It got me thinking, we need to out a lot of older rams that if I were to put X ram over some of our current ewes what should I do to keep a maternal type breeding ewe? Then there's the cross again with their female offspring and so on obviously going away from the Suffolk x or do you cross maternal then paternal and so on.
All our lambs go direct to slaughter.
Just an idea to punt out to you all.
Hope this doesn't sound like a silly question

If you're going a self replacing maternal flock, you want high value wool, or non.

You're lambs might look good now, but dead lambs don't weigh.

Breeding prices will be very high this autumn. Chop in all those mules and buy a core of maternals of your choice to breed tups. Then a ruck of other cheap ewes (draft hill?) to grade up.

 

[Agrivator]

Just criss/cross Suffolks and Texels. Put a Suffolk on light-faced ewes and a Texel on darker-faced ewes.

But for easier lambing, use a Beltex on any ewe-lambs or smaller gimmer shearlings.

Above all, If you have any pride in the stock you keep, and the lambs you produce, and want to maintain a flock that has a high sale value, either as draft ewes or final dispersal, stay well away from Lleyns, Romneys and Shedders.

 

[Bones]

I would try a nice hill cheviot on your ewes,

 

[Aspiring Peasants]

Having read through this and your lambing time thread at the time, it reminds me of what an old Irish farmer said when he was asked for directions to Dublin. He said if I was going to Dublin I wouldn't start from here.

To get a better system and still get quality lambs I think you have 2 options. Start buying replacement mules and breed Texel mules from them. This is of course not totally self replacing as you have to buy some mules every year. Or, look at some of the maternal composites such as Logie Durno sell. I haven't any experience of them myself but somebody on here might.