Buildings with a covenant

[Missymoo]

We have been renting some land for about 3 years now on a business farm tenancy. Up until now we have never herd of any covenant that is apparently on the barns.
Apparently a covenant was put on the barns some 30 years ago for the guy who lives next door for there to never be pigs or poultry to be put in the barns, or any intensive farming to happen.
it doesn’t say that in our contract.
These barns are in very poor condition and cattle could never be put in them, so they are wasted.
We had no idea of this so we have bought some pigs (8 of them) and now we have been made aware of it. They are saying we have to remove them and put them outside but we have no shelter or pig arks for them to go outside.
iv been doing some research and surly because we are operating as a Business we could get around it with the competition law?
Our landlord has no experience in the agriculture sector or anything to do with farming.
Does anyone have any advise please anything would be greatly appreciated, thankyou

 

[Kidds]

If you have been there three years already it would seem to me you never really intended to put pigs in there, this has been a much later decision. There has never been any need to mention the covenant.
So you are renting a building that you are not allowed to put pigs in it and are now arguing that for business reasons you need to put 8 pigs inside. I don't think you will win this argument and as you are allowed to put them outside you best look for an ark.

 

[steveR]

If the person who got the Covenant put on is still about, I am afraid you would struggle to argue your case at all. Presumably, it was put on to protect his quality of life and this still stands.

How far he would go in Court is an unknown, but I would hazard a guess, your Landlord would not wanat to be involved in legal shenanigans.

 

[Fuzzy]

We have been renting some land for about 3 years now on a business farm tenancy. Up until now we have never herd of any covenant that is apparently on the barns.
Apparently a covenant was put on the barns some 30 years ago for the guy who lives next door for there to never be pigs or poultry to be put in the barns, or any intensive farming to happen.
it doesn’t say that in our contract.
These barns are in very poor condition and cattle could never be put in them, so they are wasted.
We had no idea of this so we have bought some pigs (8 of them) and now we have been made aware of it. They are saying we have to remove them and put them outside but we have no shelter or pig arks for them to go outside.
iv been doing some research and surly because we are operating as a Business we could get around it with the competition law?
Our landlord has no experience in the agriculture sector or anything to do with farming.
Does anyone have any advise please anything would be greatly appreciated, thankyou

Have you obtained a copy of the covenant ?

 

[ISCO]

You need to see the covenant. Negative covenants like this are usually for the benefit of neighbouring land and bind the burdened land no matter who owns the neighbouring land.
I do not think business use makes any difference.
Your landlord is probably unaware of the covenant however, will most likely not want any hassle.
As to enforcement it depends on how far the neighbour will take matters. The first step would be a letter from their solicitor pointing out the breach to your landlord who would then probably ask you to remove the pigs.
Ultimately the only way to enforce would be an injunction.
If I were you I would not want to cause landlord any grief and remove pigs now.

 

[Dry Rot]

I would say your landlord has contracted to lease you some land and buildings for farming. It has now come to light that he cannot lease you part of the land (i.e. the buildings) for the farming you would quite reasonably want to do. You were not made aware of that covenant so could not have agreeed to it.

Your landlord, on the other hand, bought the land with that covenant in place as his solicitor should have discovered when doing the usual search.

If you want to fight this, you need to find yourself a good agricultural solicitor or land agent as you are not getting what you bargained for and need compensating. If your landlord was not aware of he covenant, then he may have a case against his solicitor who, it would seem, has been negligent.

If you lease some land for farming, you are surely bargaining for the right to farm that land. If you subsequently find the owner cannot lease the land for farming, I don't see how you could in any way be held liable. When an owner sells land with a restriction (covenant), he will expect to get less money for it. So the covenant has value. He cannot expect to get full value, as if the covenant didn't exist, if he now sells or rents it to a third party.

 

[Missymoo]

If the person who got the Covenant put on is still about, I am afraid you would struggle to argue your case at all. Presumably, it was put on to protect his quality of life and this still stands.

How far he would go in Court is an unknown, but I would hazard a guess, your Landlord would not wanat to be involved in legal shenanigans.

the landlord at the time who agreed with the neighbours is now dead, it was put on there to keep the neighbour happy because he doesn’t want the smell of pigs and poultry near his house

 

[Missymoo]

If you have been there three years already it would seem to me you never really intended to put pigs in there, this has been a much later decision. There has never been any need to mention the covenant.
So you are renting a building that you are not allowed to put pigs in it and are now arguing that for business reasons you need to put 8 pigs inside. I don't think you will win this argument and as you are allowed to put them outside you best look for an ark.

we always intended to, we have just been waiting for the right time for us financially

 

[bobk]

We have been renting some land for about 3 years now on a business farm tenancy. Up until now we have never herd of any covenant that is apparently on the barns.
Apparently a covenant was put on the barns some 30 years ago for the guy who lives next door for there to never be pigs or poultry to be put in the barns, or any intensive farming to happen.
it doesn’t say that in our contract.
These barns are in very poor condition and cattle could never be put in them, so they are wasted.
We had no idea of this so we have bought some pigs (8 of them) and now we have been made aware of it. They are saying we have to remove them and put them outside but we have no shelter or pig arks for them to go outside.
iv been doing some research and surly because we are operating as a Business we could get around it with the competition law?
Our landlord has no experience in the agriculture sector or anything to do with farming.
Does anyone have any advise please anything would be greatly appreciated, thankyou

If it says no pigs etc , you have abide or get the covenant changed and that will depend if owner is happy to do so

 

[Missymoo]

I would say your landlord has contracted to lease you some land and buildings for farming. It has now come to light that he cannot lease you part of the land (i.e. the buildings) for the farming you would quite reasonably want to do. You were not made aware of that covenant so could not have agreeed to it.

Your landlord, on the other hand, bought the land with that covenant in place as his solicitor should have discovered when doing the usual search.

If you want to fight this, you need to find yourself a good agricultural solicitor or land agent as you are not getting what you bargained for and need compensating. If your landlord was not aware of he covenant, then he may have a case against his solicitor who, it would seem, has been negligent.

If you lease some land for farming, you are surely bargaining for the right to farm that land. If you subsequently find the owner cannot lease the land for farming, I don't see how you could in any way be held liable. When an owner sells land with a restriction (covenant), he will expect to get less money for it. So the covenant has value. He cannot expect to get full value, as if the covenant didn't exist, if he now sells or rents it to a third party.

that’s the thing he didn’t buy it with the covenant already on the land. they say they put it on the buildings when they sold the house next door to keep the neighbour happy because he didn’t want the smell near his house,they said it was an agreement made when they exchanged hands of the house

 

[teslacoils]

Question is, how secure is your tenancy? Really, it's landlords fault but I expect one way or another the pigs are going to have to go.

Suspect LL apologising to neighbour; neighbour agreeing to let them stay until slaughter weight; then they go.

Suppose you could all waste money on solicitors though as that seems a popular option. If I were LL I'd say sorry and give you say six months rent free in return for pigs going. Otherwise, if it was going to be a pain I'd serve the tenant notice.

 

[Missymoo]

Have you obtained a copy of the covenant ?

No we haven’t just an Angry neighbour and an angry email from the son of the original owner who said put the covenant on the buildings

 

[Courier]

8 pigs are hardly a business .........

Did you maybe have a sneaking suspicion about the possibility of a covenant and are testing the water before investing in something more worthwhile ?

 

[bobk]

You can get the transfer off the Land Registry

 

[Missymoo]

Question is, how secure is your tenancy? Really, it's landlords fault but I expect one way or another the pigs are going to have to go.

Suspect LL apologising to neighbour; neighbour agreeing to let them stay until slaughter weight; then they go.

Suppose you could all waste money on solicitors though as that seems a popular option. If I were LL I'd say sorry and give you say six months rent free in return for pigs going. Otherwise, if it was going to be a pain I'd serve the tenant notice.

8 pigs are hardly a business .........

Did you maybe have a sneaking suspicion about the possibility of a covenant and are testing the water before investing in something more worthwhile ?

Definitely not... not everyone can have 1000 pigs. Iv worked on a 1500 pig unit I know start up for pigs are expensive and looking after them is as well. You can certainly have a Business from 8 pigs selling there meat privately, we have rare breeds. So selling good stock for breeding

 

[Dry Rot]

that’s the thing he didn’t buy it with the covenant already on the land. they say they put it on the buildings when they sold the house next door to keep the neighbour happy because he didn’t want the smell near his house,they said it was an agreement made when they exchanged hands of the house

In that case, the landlord has unilaterally changed the terms of the contract and he is no longer leasing what the OP had bargained for. He can't do that. Quote: "it doesn’t say that in our contract".

"You cannot be bound by the terms of a contract of which you have no prior knowledge".

 

[teslacoils]

The fact is that, if there is a covenant, which there sounds like there is, then it's an issue between landlord and neighbour.

But that means it's an issue between landlord and you. And irrespective of the terms of the lease I suspect if everyone gets "legal" then everyone will loose.

LL not knowing about a covenant on their own land?

 

[Courier]

Definitely not... not everyone can have 1000 pigs. Iv worked on a 1500 pig unit I know start up for pigs are expensive and looking after them is as well. You can certainly have a Business from 8 pigs selling there meat privately, we have rare breeds. So selling good stock for breeding

Shouldn't be a massive problem to create some sort of outdoor shelter for that number of pigs without using the disputed building and would be a good selling point for your produce...The best weather of the year is in front of you and hardy rare breeds should perform well in straw bale shelters..

Certainly can't call 8 fattening pigs "Intensive" by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Courier]

The fact is that, if there is a covenant, which there sounds like there is, then it's an issue between landlord and neighbour.

But that means it's an issue between landlord and you. And irrespective of the terms of the lease I suspect if everyone gets "legal" then everyone will loose.

LL not knowing about a covenant on their own land?

I got the impression that the covenant is on the barn(s). Not on the land ?

 

[Courier]