- Location
- East Sussex
Hmmmmm 
curious customer Clive?
curious customer Clive?
Buying Top quality meat ? why so hard ?
- Thread starter Clive
- Start date
JD-Kid
Member
- Location
- Akaroa.. New Zealand
that would be a hell of a topic
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
Why is this SO hard ?
One of the positives of this awful lockdown year for me so far is that I have had time to do something I have wanted for a long time ............. learn to cook
I spent some money saved from a canceled ski holiday on a fancy smoker BBQ (Big Green Egg) back in March and have cooked almost daily on it ever since, surprising myself with what I am actually capable of cooking and as a bonus, no one has died yet !
So as you get into these things, join Facebook groups, forums, watch youtube etc you start to get more ambitious and want to try more unusual things, it becomes more than just food, its a new hobby at this point and as a result what you become prepared to spend raises accordingly.
I'm not alone, there is a big scene of other middle-aged twits like me all into this, mostly with money to spend - I can't help but feel the UK livestock industry is missing out here
YET (and here is the point of this thread) Top quality meat, particularly the unusual (expensive) cuts are very hard to get? why is this? I read constantly on here that British grass fed beef is "better" but where is it when I come to try to buy it ?
The first stop was the village butcher in a village a few miles away (my village has no shops anymore sadly) It's all very traditional looking and surely worth a premium over the supermarkets ? ............. but no, I've come to learn the meat is nothing special, no real provenance and pre-cut from wholesalers just being retailed. Ther first time I asked for a Picanha for example they hadn't got a clue what I was on about, I had to google it for them and what I got, in the end, wasn't really done properly.
I tried another local butcher (a bit further away but of BIG local reputation, I ordered Brisket and it turned up rolled ! I asked for "packer cut" they had no idea what I was on about despite the internet and a million youtube video's about cooking such cuts
Jacobs ladder, beef short rib, 4 rib, Tomahawks etc all command premium prices but are really hard to get until you discover the gems that do butcher their own carcasses like Tori nad Bens Fram shop etc Grass-fed Longhorn with quality and provenance worth paying for proving that these places do exist and do know how to provide what customers like me want and reap the premium price rewards to match, why are they so "hidden" though? why not the normal rather than the exception ?
Tori & Bens Farm Shop – Derbyshire Farm Shop & Deli
toriandbensfarm.co.uk
One place I have found you can get the unusual and better cuts is Costco ..................... but it's more often than not USDA and imported! I don't want to buy that but have done as it's so much easier
My question is why is this rare? what are not more livestock farms not butchering retailing direct? surely the internet has made it easier than ever before to cut out the middlemen who from what I see are doing a very poor job of butchering and retailing your products?
firstly - I haven’t bothered to read any of the following posts . . .
I live in a place called Gunnedah ( the next “major” towns - all with populations between 5000 / 10,000 - are 100 km north, 100km west, 75 km east & 80 km south ) - a town of about 10,000 people in north west NSW, about 400 km inland, away from the main population centres which are all based on the east coast.
Immediately I can think of 3 beef, 1 lamb & one pork producer locally who’s main business are mail order / direct sales of their product - largely into the Sydney market ( although of course locals can buy it as well ) to discerning buyers . . .
Surely without the tyranny of distance, it should be so easy in the UK
Reading TFF, it appears as if the UK has the best standards & the best produce in the world (
), but it’s all the public’s fault because they don’t want to spend money . . .Dunno - seems like plenty of people here want to spend money.
Oh yeah - butchers shops are still quite a “thing” here
Home
theconsciousfarmer.com.au
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- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
myallsprings.com.au
www.myallsprings.com.au
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
@Clive
Are UK beef producers like this ?
1888certified.com.au
Are UK beef producers like this ?
"Hanaminno"
1888 Certified Butchery is Sydney's best paddock to plate premium butcher. All our produce is hormone & antibiotic free, Grass fed & Grass finished. Sustainable practices, traceability and education are all part of the core values at 1888 Certified. QUALITY MEATS ORIGIN to bring our customers...
1888certified.com.au
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I live in a place called Gunnedah - a town of about 10,000 people in north west NSW, about 400 km inland, away from the main population centres which are all based on the east coast.
Immediately I can think of 3 beef, 1 lamb & one pork producer locally who’s main business are mail order / direct sales of there product - largely into the Sydney market to discerning buyers . . .
Surely without the tyranny of distance, it should be so easy in the UK
Reading TFF, it appears as if the UK has the best standards & the best produce in the world (
Dunno - seems like plenty of people here want to spend money.
Oh yeah - butchers shops are still quite a “thing” here
Home
As ever,it comes down to time, and money.
It takes a lot of time & effort to market produce to the retail market, and maintain momentum.
If the average farm business lacks the necessary skills or capacity to do this effectively (maybe because they are spending their time rearing livestock to a high standard) then it's generally more beneficial to stick to what one is good at and prefers, and partner up with a butcher as 'preferred supplier'
Do what you do best and do it better. Delegate the rest.
Personally, I'm far more comfortable as farmer than ever I would be as retailer, not my thing at all.
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
fair enough - I am the same
as I said, I can think of those few locally, that means there are a hell of a lot who are just producing a commodity because that is what they are comfortable with.
but if even 1% had the drive, skills & acumen to market direct - that’s still a lot of farms . . .
Can’t compare one country to the other. I can easily think of half a dozen reasons why butchering and supplying specific uncommon cuts into urban centres is not on many people’s lists of things to do here. Too many regulations and hoops for too many consumer excuses for too few sales.
Once a relationship is created between a farmer who sells directly, and their preferred butcher, some things will be possible. But it’s rarely one or two special cuts every now and then kind of deal. That’s just not worth the hassle for a farmer, 100% in a butchers court.
Once a relationship is created between a farmer who sells directly, and their preferred butcher, some things will be possible. But it’s rarely one or two special cuts every now and then kind of deal. That’s just not worth the hassle for a farmer, 100% in a butchers court.
@curiouscustomer a brief reply but I don't think you should have much trouble finding that stuff. As with the picanha - you just need to find the right establishment for you. Any carcass butcher would have shin and flank you mentioned and if not I'm sure could get for you. Same with offal such as hearts you mentioned.
I couldn't recommend any near you and perhaps mail order offer a limited selection sometimes but if you can't find imminently a butcher - what about a trip down Smith field market. Or direct to the abattoir. I bet there are some great shops close to you, you just need to seek them out. Many, even if they didn't have what you wanted might be able to source it.
With regards to lesser known cuts etc - those that aren't offered for sale might find their way into a processed or value added product - mince, sausage, burgers, koftas, kebabs etc. Don't think a cut is wasted - it will be used somewhere and an animal can be butchered in '000's different ways - its not just that's the cut you get from there or there.
Offal - perhaps those smaller shops that don't have demand won't hold a stock but again can be made into products like faggots and a lot of butchers would take plucks. You would probably find that at many of the processing plants that cut, have offal that products are moved in different directions to where there is demand. Eg the bigger places would be able to palletise products - say trotters and ship to high demand countries - perhaps China or such like.
At a butchers you want to sell everything you can - more reason for some to buy choice cuts. Unfortunately gone are the days when any unsold parts - bones, deteriorating stock, unasbale parts/trimmings are paid for by the bone collectors - butchers now have to pay them to get rid of stock, as do livestock farmers for dead stock. Rules and regulations which has increased costs, have put pressures on both parties there, including the shutting of many smaller abattoirs.
One idea - there are sooo many online YouTube videos and a general wealth of easily accessible information. You might find it interesting to order from someone with known provenance say a set of lamb fores, or a whole leg of pork with chump and trotter and just have a go yourself at home at home butchery and using and learning all that you can do with that part. It would certainly give good satisfaction.
I couldn't recommend any near you and perhaps mail order offer a limited selection sometimes but if you can't find imminently a butcher - what about a trip down Smith field market. Or direct to the abattoir. I bet there are some great shops close to you, you just need to seek them out. Many, even if they didn't have what you wanted might be able to source it.
With regards to lesser known cuts etc - those that aren't offered for sale might find their way into a processed or value added product - mince, sausage, burgers, koftas, kebabs etc. Don't think a cut is wasted - it will be used somewhere and an animal can be butchered in '000's different ways - its not just that's the cut you get from there or there.
Offal - perhaps those smaller shops that don't have demand won't hold a stock but again can be made into products like faggots and a lot of butchers would take plucks. You would probably find that at many of the processing plants that cut, have offal that products are moved in different directions to where there is demand. Eg the bigger places would be able to palletise products - say trotters and ship to high demand countries - perhaps China or such like.
At a butchers you want to sell everything you can - more reason for some to buy choice cuts. Unfortunately gone are the days when any unsold parts - bones, deteriorating stock, unasbale parts/trimmings are paid for by the bone collectors - butchers now have to pay them to get rid of stock, as do livestock farmers for dead stock. Rules and regulations which has increased costs, have put pressures on both parties there, including the shutting of many smaller abattoirs.
One idea - there are sooo many online YouTube videos and a general wealth of easily accessible information. You might find it interesting to order from someone with known provenance say a set of lamb fores, or a whole leg of pork with chump and trotter and just have a go yourself at home at home butchery and using and learning all that you can do with that part. It would certainly give good satisfaction.
- Location
- Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
Welcome.
1. You can belong here as much as anybody else, in fact with such great feedback as a consumer and such a well phrased post, you're very very welcome (dare I say more so than some "farmer" members)
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- Location
- Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk
I'd go see the butchers at The Ginger Pig 165a High Road Loughton to start. They'd be premium price but I'm hoping they'd be very honest and open about the lower priced cuts and offal - it is after all very important especially as you are an A-grade potential customer
Are you on Instagram? If so I'd message Jonny Farrell @butcherfarrell who does butchery talks, is seriously interested in the things you are. I don't think he is a front line butcher role anymore (may be wrong) but used to front Jimmys Farm butchery and some of his butcher class videos are very informative
- Location
- Ledbury, Herefordshire
British butchers in "don't cut a carcase like American butchers" shocker.
Some days, I wish we could be a bit more like the French (with their gazillion more cuts from the same animal) and be a bit protective of our culinary ways. Ask a Frenchman what he thinks of a "tomahawk steak".....
Some days, I wish we could be a bit more like the French (with their gazillion more cuts from the same animal) and be a bit protective of our culinary ways. Ask a Frenchman what he thinks of a "tomahawk steak".....
curiouscustomer
Member
Thanks all for your well-considered responses so far.
Don't shed any tears for me - I eat very well indeed, and I'm never really in a situation where I want something specific and can't get hold of it with a bit of notice. I'm not looking for the farming community to provide a bespoke solution for me, I was just interested in what happens on the supply side that leads to some of the sourcing challenges I see as a retail customer. As the OP said, why is it so hard? And I guess ultimately the answer is that I'm in a very small niche and the premium received for catering to me is too small to be worth it.
Fair enough. By "good butcher" I really mean a carcass butcher as opposed to one that buys from a wholesaler, uncertain provenance, etc. It was a distinction made by others on the thread. I understand the sound economic reasons why the local butchers I was aware of don't want to take on perishable stock they're unsure of shifting, and I didn't mean to imply they're not "good". I can tell you that Google is useless in this sense as no one holds themselves out as a carcass butcher.
I tried. The local butchers don't have offal that comes back because they don't buy whole carcasses. One online butcher told me no when I asked (see question 4 in my first post) and another that does stock offal etc is apparently so inundated with requests that I have to subscribe to an email list and they'll notify me when particular organs are in stock. That's fine but I have to order £75 worth of meat at a time, and it's practically impossible to get, say, a heart and a cheek in the same order. So I'd have to buy £75 worth when the cheeks are in stock, and then another £75 a week later when they have heart. It can be done, but it's pushing me well beyond the realm of a typical retail customer. And the fact that the place that sells the stuff is overwhelmed with orders makes me wonder why other websites already catering to this niche market won't sell offal. Are the regulations really that difficult to navigate? Are they more stringent for offal?
Agreed. But it's not so much that I'm looking specifically for shin and can't get hold of it. It's more that I'm willing to buy and cook anything, and to pay a premium above commodity prices. I've been reading about how carcass balance is a problem, particularly during lockdown, and it got me thinking about how people like me don't have any means of buying the parts of the animal that are apparently creating a headache for the industry as a whole. I get the point about going into value-add products, but surely these attract commodity prices? If you have, say, a small herd of well-finished Dexter, and the fillet and sirloin have sold themselves at a significant mark-up over supermarket prices, do you then sell what's left to someone making burgers? If so, do they pay any more for your "better" beef or is there a standard market price? Would having a pool of retail customers who would pay more be a good thing for you, or would the hassle of dealing with multiple small orders be more trouble than it's worth? Are you better off having a single ready buyer for everything, but at a lower price?
I'm willing to do it, but I'm obsessive to the point of discovering and joining farming forums in the middle of the night. It's certainly not a solution for a typical retail customer.
Excellent suggestion. Will do.
My wife would leave me.
Don't shed any tears for me - I eat very well indeed, and I'm never really in a situation where I want something specific and can't get hold of it with a bit of notice. I'm not looking for the farming community to provide a bespoke solution for me, I was just interested in what happens on the supply side that leads to some of the sourcing challenges I see as a retail customer. As the OP said, why is it so hard? And I guess ultimately the answer is that I'm in a very small niche and the premium received for catering to me is too small to be worth it.
Get yourself along to Barnes farmers market and speak to the guys at gilcombe farm. Might be a bit of a trek but they'll get you what you want.
- Location
- Scottish Highlands
what a great post (welcome !)
From a different angle than myself but really the same points being made that its not easy for customer to get what they want and surely addressing this is a great opportunity for farmers and butchers ?
supermarkets and retail (none carcass) butchers have “dumbed down” meat it seems to me ?
I think farmers are underestimating how much lockdown has reconnected a lot of people with their food ?
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JD-Kid
Member
- Location
- Akaroa.. New Zealand
know when used to cattle away to be killed did not get the offal back or the head etc not sure why
alot of butchers may just buy main cuts from wholesalers can be a hard road to shift alot of lower end cuts
some butchers I know do buy direct off farmers or at sale yards so do get the whole animal back some stuff might just go into mincer
if they are asked might keep a few Kgs aside would retail at mince price or better I would be guessing
true story mate got a cow cut up years ago butcher asked. did he want corned beef ,mince or sausages
he turned around and said just do the whole lot as. sausages thinking it would just be the poor cuts ....the wires got crossed some were and he got just under 400 kgs of sausages back hahahaha
- Location
- Shropshire
I’m not a butcher, but the vast majority of the shin, skirt etc will be available both to buy (probably in the back as they put most popular cuts on display) or in the ready meal lasagnes, pies and stews that will be sold in the shop.
One butcher told me recently that the ready meals they sell go faster than the roasting joints.