By what percentage have cover crops increased the bottom line of your business?

7610 super q

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
- £20 / acre. But it " feels " like the right thing to do. I sow cover crops, therefore I is a proper farmer. It allows me to be an arrogant tosspot like the no- tillers on here. :LOL: + You are subconsciously encouraged to tick the " I've sown or intend to sow cover crops " box on the RPA form. Yields no better, prices no better. Last year for subs in Wales in 2021 I think, so after that won't bother.
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
Difficult to say because I think it's a long term strategy with 'payback' taking time. Hearing the way some people talk about them they view them as a box ticking exercise and go for the cheapest product possible. I try to view them as another type of input and select the product according to what I want it to do, i.e. soil structure improvement or soil nutrition improvement or to aid pest control, etc.
This is so true. Seen so many people sling abit of mustard on and get a demo direct disc drill in the spring . Obviously it doesn’t work very well and they say the whole system won’t work and forget about it. I’m sure some want it to fail when they try so they can justify their unsustainable system to themselves!
 
They make a massive difference here, cover and catch crops. We can manage soil movement at drilling much better than with bare land, reducing pre-emergence use. They do structure soil to a certain extent, however it is a long term game. We spray our overwinter covers off at times to suit the following crops. Dec/Jan for s barley, oats and beans, March/April/May for peas. They don't dry out soil in the spring as much as cultivation, but they do make sure what cultivation you do is maximised and the effect lasts for much longer.
 

7610 super q

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
The only thing that really does any good here is sticking the ground down to grass for 7-10 years. Trouble is that's a decade of pish poor income trying to flog hay / haylage to folks that can't be arsed.
Might just as well crop everything every year, and put up with mediocre yields. Livestock is the answer for those in the right frame of mind. No good for me you understand, cos it'll interfere with my weekly skiing trips through the winter......:pompous:
 
They make a massive difference here, cover and catch crops. We can manage soil movement at drilling much better than with bare land, reducing pre-emergence use. They do structure soil to a certain extent, however it is a long term game. We spray our overwinter covers off at times to suit the following crops. Dec/Jan for s barley, oats and beans, March/April/May for peas. They don't dry out soil in the spring as much as cultivation, but they do make sure what cultivation you do is maximised and the effect lasts for much longer.
What soil type you on . And do you grow any root crops ?
why don’t you graze off covers so land is bare than chemical destruction all that green manure , or sheep sh!t and pee on land is gone ? then drill into it ,
And how do you deal with compaction Or are you on 12 m controlled wheeling ,
 

FarmerBruce

Member
Location
Yorkshire
Catch crops, cover crops or any other crops that aren’t taken to harvest, fed or grazed are a conscious easing exercise because either you, or previous generations haven’t farmed with livestock, manures or a proper rotation! Hence having to try and repair damage that shouldn’t have happened in the first place. Basically this is the lazy/easiest way to try and fix the problem!!
 
We’ve grown them for ever and a day, but called it a catch crop of stubble turnips, which sheep graze and we make money from it. Meanwhile the sheep destroy it without using chemicals and leave plenty of muck behind. Recycling if you like.

I’ve found that sheep cause more damage than good to be honest. In fact this year where the sheep were on turnips yielded our lowest seen yield of 1.6t/ac. Trying them again on another field this year to see with turnips on one part, then mustard and raddish on another.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
I’m not sure how you calculate it really ?

but covercrops are a essential key make my farming system possible which has more than halved my fixed cost structure without compromise to yield - On that basis I could suggest they are worth hundreds of thousands a year to my bottom line ?

Is anyone who doesn’t grow them actually “farming”. Or are they running synthetic input dependant mining operations dressed up as farms ?
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
What soil type you on . And do you grow any root crops ?
why don’t you graze off covers so land is bare than chemical destruction all that green manure , or sheep sh!t and pee on land is gone ? then drill into it ,
And how do you deal with compaction Or are you on 12 m controlled wheeling ,

covet-crops go a long way to preventing “compaction issues” pointless growing them and grazing to bare soil, somel grazing to bring more biological diversity can be a great thing on the right soil types and is something we do when the situation and economics work

bare soil should never be anyone’s aim, bare Soil is a desert, not healthy
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Difficult to say because I think it's a long term strategy with 'payback' taking time. Hearing the way some people talk about them they view them as a box ticking exercise and go for the cheapest product possible. I try to view them as another type of input and select the product according to what I want it to do, i.e. soil structure improvement or soil nutrition improvement or to aid pest control, etc.

it’s long term for soil health / crop yield / sustainability but as a system change the return can be almost immediate in terms of fixed cost savings
 
covet-crops go a long way to preventing “compaction issues” pointless growing them and grazing to bare soil, somel grazing to bring more biological diversity can be a great thing on the right soil types and is something we do when the situation and economics work

bare soil should never be anyone’s aim, bare Soil is a desert, not healthy
Clive ,graze it off then sow your next crop ,
And you have said it
some soil types , no good on heavy land for spring crops , keeps it wet and slugs ,
Better to get it ploughed dry and 3/4 worked ,in back end ,
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
- £20 / acre. But it " feels " like the right thing to do. I sow cover crops, therefore I is a proper farmer. It allows me to be an arrogant tosspot like the no- tillers on here. :LOL: + You are subconsciously encouraged to tick the " I've sown or intend to sow cover crops " box on the RPA form. Yields no better, prices no better. Last year for subs in Wales in 2021 I think, so after that won't bother.

arrogance is no less desirable than bitterness
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Clive ,graze it off then sow your next crop ,
And you have said it
some soil types , no good on heavy land for spring crops , keeps it wet and slugs ,
Better to get it ploughed dry and 3/4 worked ,in back end ,

covercrops don’t suit all soil types in over winter timings I agree, that doesn’t mean they have no place on heavier soils though

slugs are a symptom of poor soil health and crap rotation, they are no longer a problem I have to deal with yet I used to use pellets by the truck load

I see no argument for a plough these days on any soil type though other than in veg production, in fact heavier soils benefit the most in cost saving as they are the most expensive and power hungry to cultivate. I strongly suspect ELMS will be the end for the plough on combinable crop farms, it will simply become uneconomical (already is truth be told)

soil type is not most farmers problem, knowledge is. Sucess is not as easy as simply just stopping cultivations unfortunately. Notill does not work if that’s all you change. Those that fail will blame anything but themselves, that’s, understandable, human nature
 
covercrops don’t suit all soil types in over winter timings I agree, that doesn’t mean they have no place on heavier soils though

slugs are a symptom of poor soil health and crap rotation, they are no longer a problem I have to deal with yet I used to use pellets by the truck load

I see no argument for a plough these days on any soil type though other than in veg production, in fact heavier soils benefit the most in cost saving as they are the most expensive and power hungry to cultivate. I strongly suspect ELMS will be the end for the plough on combinable crop farms, it will simply become uneconomical (already is truth be told)

soil type is not most farmers problem, knowledge is. Sucess is not as easy as simply just stopping cultivations unfortunately. Notill does not work if that’s all you change. Those that fail will blame anything but themselves, that’s, understandable, human nature
Not every one can justify 12 m drills , or combines ,to go to a controlled traffic ,
So how do you deal with a wet harvest , and rutting ,compaction etc , your lighter land ,may suit what your doing ,
Our lighter land ,which has high flint content ,is like concrete at minute , having to irrigate to lift carrots ,and stubble turnips going backwards now ,
Potato man said he could do with an inch of rain as massive bruising issues ,
Have a nice sandy loam field , winter barley ,then carrots , late lifted strawed down , so no crop over summer ,so had a good dollop of chicken muck ,and had oil raddish oat mustard , eaten off ,then cultivated , then winter barley , then pig muck ,and raddish , eaten off ,had chicken muck and half ploughed and pressed other half , worked and subsoiled , and drilled with beet ,
Will be interesting when we lift it ,to see which performs best ,
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Not every one can justify 12 m drills , or combines ,to go to a controlled traffic ,
So how do you deal with a wet harvest , and rutting ,compaction etc , your lighter land ,may suit what your doing ,
Our lighter land ,which has high flint content ,is like concrete at minute , having to irrigate to lift carrots ,and stubble turnips going backwards now ,
Potato man said he could do with an inch of rain as massive bruising issues ,
Have a nice sandy loam field , winter barley ,then carrots , late lifted strawed down , so no crop over summer ,so had a good dollop of chicken muck ,and had oil raddish oat mustard , eaten off ,then cultivated , then winter barley , then pig muck ,and raddish , eaten off ,had chicken muck and half ploughed and pressed other half , worked and subsoiled , and drilled with beet ,
Will be interesting when we lift it ,to see which performs best ,

i started with a cheap ex @Simon Chiles used 4m drill that i sold a few years later for the same price paid for it and no CTF - it worked. if it hadn’t woyld not be in the financial position or farming the land we do to be buying 12m drills today would I ?

I couldn’t justify more staff or high horsepower tractors I would need to plouh or cultivate the entire fatm and still make a prifit for myself or my cintract farm landowners - cover crops ate a mey part if that being possible

there is always a reason why it won’t work if you want to find one ! ....... anf thsts fine, you farm however yoy like, it makes no difference to me

Soil type is jist an excuse for lack of knowledge or desire to learn new skills and make fundamental change, there are plenty example of heavy land notill farmers working very successfully all over the globe
 
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i started with a cheap ex @Simon Chiles used 4m drill that i sold a few years later for the same price paid for it and no CTF - it worked. if it hadn’t woyld not be in the financial position or farming the land we do to be buying 12m drills today would I ?

there is akways a reason why it won’t work if you want to find one !

So type is jist an excuse for lack of knowledge or desire to learn new skiuor make fundamental chsnge, there are plenty example of heavy land notill farmers working very successfuly
Would love to go down that route ,but spuds carrots , beet ,can see i working on all cominables
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Would love to go down that route ,but spuds carrots , beet ,can see i working on all cominables

hard to make no till work on a farm based on root and veg crops I agree

still a place for covercrops though i would suggest - soil health surely even more important when growing high value crops ?
 

Pilatus

Member
Location
cotswolds
Thanks for all your posts, which yet again show that their are no set rules in how individuals wish to run their farms ( thank goodness for that otherwise we would be like a communist state)!!!
One thing I will say is do those of you who plant cover crops with your drill take in to account the increased wear on the drill due to covering more ha’s with your drill, the same goes for wear on the rolls and extra hours on the tractors , and overtime wages of staff unless they are salaried, also extra diesel usage.
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
Thanks for all your posts, which yet again show that their are no set rules in how individuals wish to run their farms ( thank goodness for that otherwise we would be like a communist state)!!!
One thing I will say is do those of you who plant cover crops with your drill take in to account the increased wear on the drill due to covering more ha’s with your drill, the same goes for wear on the rolls and extra hours on the tractors , and overtime wages of staff unless they are salaried, also extra diesel usage.
Obviously
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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