C2 seed rates

[nick...]

I normally grow c3 Wheat seed but will have some C2 this coming planting season.i normally drill 150/180 kg mid sept to mid oct But woukd I get away with a lower rate with the C2.please don’t mention seeds metre as that’s above my pay grade.
nick...

 

[bobk]

I've never heard of c3

 

[nick...]

please disregard the above.ive confused myself with something else
nick...

 

[robbie]

8 stone an acre mid sept and keep upping the drill a notch or two until you end up at cwt and a half by mid October.....simples

 

[bobk]

8 stone an acre mid sept and keep upping the drill a notch or two until you end up at cwt and a half by mid October.....simples

Whereas up north we start at 14 stone , then get on to tons / acre

 

[Chae1]

Is C3 not a citroen?

I'm just a straw brained idiot but I sow everything at 200kg/ha.

Never bother with the tgw etc.

Hasn't let me down yet.

 

[Gedd]

Whereas up north we start at 14 stone , then get on to tons / acre

Yep sow nothing less than 12 stone an acre and keep upping it before end of September heavy land and fairly high above sea level

 

[snarling bee]

We just put it in the drill and get on. Its usually empty when we've finished.

 

[Lincsman]

You plant the same amount whatever the "c" generation, unless it was a very expensive basic seed and then you might try and stretch it.

 

[Brisel]

I normally grow c3 Wheat seed but will have some C2 this coming planting season.i normally drill 150/180 kg mid sept to mid oct But woukd I get away with a lower rate with the C2.please don’t mention seeds metre as that’s above my pay grade.
nick...

You don't want to hear this, but a few minutes getting your head around seeds/m2 and TGW would be time well spent IMO. You can have a 20% difference in seed rate from one year to the next just through the same kg/ha but different thousand grain weights.

Kg/ha = Plants/m2 desired x TGW x 100
Germination % x Establishment %

 

[robbie]

Agree about the saving if using bought in seed but I can't find much trials data to show seed rate has any great bearing on final yield

 

[Brisel]

Agree about the saving if using bought in seed but I can't find much trials data to show seed rate has any great bearing on final yield

There's a good deal of flexibility in seed rates but in marginal conditions it can make a difference in a poor tillering year and poor seedbeds. Hard to replicate in trial plots. @Fromebridge has lots of experience in this.

I know that contradicts what I posted previously, but IMHO it's better to know at the outset where you're trying to save on cost. In 2012 TGWs were very low so we were able to save a few tonnes of bought in C2. There was lots of debate about the vigour of smaller seeds at the time but mine all grew ok. Buying in seed in years like 2015 when seeds were much bigger was more expensive.

When buying in C1 seed for breeding up to farm save the next year, I will usually drop seed rates by 10-15% to make it stretch a bit further.

A slightly higher seed rate is just insurance against a poorer growing season, and not an expensive one either unless you're buying in branded hybrids of the latest sexy variety promising another 5% yield that fails to materialise in the field...

 

[farmerm]

You don't want to hear this, but a few minutes getting your head around seeds/m2 and TGW would be time well spent IMO. You can have a 20% difference in seed rate from one year to the next just through the same kg/ha but different thousand grain weights.

Kg/ha = Plants/m2 desired x TGW x 100
Germination % x Establishment %

Which is all well and good but unless you have very forgiving ground, when spring arrives after the effects of an unpredictable British winter it often results in the establishment rate being either 20% better or 20% worse than the figure you used when calculating the seed rate. Now I appreciate some land gives very predicable establishment rates but my experience here is the differences in TGW and the seasonal differences in establishment rates tend to balance themselves out if you just stick to a constant seed rate. At least in the rare instances when a crop comes a little too thick it is far less depressing to walk though during the season than walking though a sparse one!

 

[Lincsman]

Experience is everything, look at the seed, look at the calendar, look at the seedbed and away you go, I have been known to set the drill at Max on headlands that are a sea of mud, surprising how well it can look when it comes up with enough seed applied.

 

[WRXppp]

There's a good deal of flexibility in seed rates but in marginal conditions it can make a difference in a poor tillering year and poor seedbeds. Hard to replicate in trial plots. @Fromebridge has lots of experience in this.

I know that contradicts what I posted previously, but IMHO it's better to know at the outset where you're trying to save on cost. In 2012 TGWs were very low so we were able to save a few tonnes of bought in C2. There was lots of debate about the vigour of smaller seeds at the time but mine all grew ok. Buying in seed in years like 2015 when seeds were much bigger was more expensive.

When buying in C1 seed for breeding up to farm save the next year, I will usually drop seed rates by 10-15% to make it stretch a bit further.

A slightly higher seed rate is just insurance against a poorer growing season, and not an expensive one either unless you're buying in branded hybrids of the latest sexy variety promising another 5% yield that fails to materialise in the field...

In my view I still think we should have a germination % and vigour score on each seed label or a facility where you can log into to see results from a certain lot number, we get these results when we home save so it can’t be that hard, it would also help with priority as to which order you sow or which lot goes into which fields.

 

[Chae1]

In my view I still think we should have a germination % and vigour score on each seed label or a facility where you can log into to see results from a certain lot number, we get these results when we home save so it can’t be that hard, it would also help with priority as to which order you sow or which lot goes into which fields.

Do you think they'll put a weather forecast on them too? So we can adjust seed rates accordingly.

 

[Chris W]

Do you think they'll put a weather forecast on them too? So we can adjust seed rates accordingly.

Clearly an irrelevant point .. @WRXppp makes a good point, certified seed should be provided with TGW and Germination % on the bag.

 

[Brisel]

In my view I still think we should have a germination % and vigour score on each seed label or a facility where you can log into to see results from a certain lot number, we get these results when we home save so it can’t be that hard, it would also help with priority as to which order you sow or which lot goes into which fields.

I can't see the seed trade voting for that one. Certified seed needs to have a minimum germination of 85% though they seem to be able to get derogations in low germination years for crops like beans.

TGW has always been stated on the bag for every batch of certified seed I've ever bought.

Some bed time reading for you - https://assets.publishing.service.g...602853/seed-certification-technical-annex.pdf

 

[yellow belly]

c1 c2 c3 makes not a lot of difference

having to many plants is much easier to manage than not enough
with rape thay will sell you the number of seeds
but in cereals if the seed is big it needs a higher seed rate and cost more

home saved seed is the cheapest input

i would only go lower on the day of drilling and perfect conditions
the most important element in a perfect seed bed is enough moisture
if it is a bit dry then higher seed rates insure against delayed germination

 

[Flintstone]

I'm just a straw brained idiot but I sow everything at 200kg/ha.

Never bother with the tgw etc.

Hasn't let me down yet.

Tend to agree.

Compared to other input costs, seed is comparatively cheap, and you only get one chance to use it each year. After drilling, weather often turns bad for long spells of time, slugs do what they do, and temperatures flit around all over the place. Having a decent robust young crop to start with, that can take a few hits, and can be managed with timings, fertiliser and PGR's would be my preference to calculating the perfect seed rate, and then find I have a thin crop 6 weeks later due to things I couldn't control.

Saying that, if I drill really late in the autumn (Late October to early December), I will up the rate gradually throughout that spell.