Calcium vs. Mag Lime Based on Soil Test

[PSQ]

I'm going to get some flak for this, but would it be worth getting someone like SOYL to map the pH, P and K on a per Ha basis?
Assuming a cost of £25/ha and 40 ha it would cost £1000, less if you negotiate a better rate. Three quotes for everything, including the lime from your mate.
With calcium lime at £38/tonne, it would need to save 26 tonnes of over application on the better areas of the land before it pays for itself.
Worst case scenario, all of the land is uniformly pH 5.3, no saving is made, profit decreases by a dead cost of £1000.
More realistic scenario, the land averages pH 5.3, with areas between 5 and 6, with extra lime saved from the pH 6 read applied to the pH 5 areas. Again, probably very little cost saving in lime, but its applied where it's needed, and with the secondary benefit of also having the maps for P & K. Better grass, and all is rosey in the garden. Even better if the lease rolls on for another 5/ 10/ 15 years.
I get that it's let grassland on a five year lease, but would it justify the extra investment in year 1?

 

[Princess Pooper]

The 'contractor puts on mag lime for the livestock boys on rented ground' makes me shudder. Ok it is good they are looking to address pH but if Mg is not needed, it's not needed and if soils are already high Mg then over time it will just make things worse!

 

[Gibbybox]

Lots of good advice as always so thanks again. All of it makes complete sense.

On the face of it I have a mag test result that is twice as high as it should be and a calcium year result that is half as high as it should be. Based on that alone it should be pretty obvious that calcium lime is needed to address the balance (or at least avoid worsening it).

The only other argument for mag rather than calcium seems to be it’s more forgiving in wind/rain but if it’s not the right stuff then maybe pissing in the wind regardless.

I’ll need to do some numbers, might not be completely out of the question to do it all with 2t calcium this year. If it takes the majority of a year to get working (as I’ve read elsewhere) I’d rather not wait any longer than needed to fix the problem. I’ve still a big potash deficiency to fix once the pH is on the right track too!

 

[Derrick Hughes]

If your in range i would be putting Limex on . Nothing works as fast as that [emoji147]

 

[Sid]

If your in range i would be putting Limex on . Nothing works as fast as that [emoji147]

Where the data to back that up?

I'll bet you a pint that this
Glendinning Ground Limestone
46% passing a 150 micron sieve, 54% NV.

Is as good if not better!

That's the old MAFF legal minimum I believe

 

[Derrick Hughes]

6 month on and you should see the grass.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

Lots of good advice as always so thanks again. All of it makes complete sense.

On the face of it I have a mag test result that is twice as high as it should be and a calcium year result that is half as high as it should be. Based on that alone it should be pretty obvious that calcium lime is needed to address the balance (or at least avoid worsening it).

The only other argument for mag rather than calcium seems to be it’s more forgiving in wind/rain but if it’s not the right stuff then maybe pissing in the wind regardless.

I’ll need to do some numbers, might not be completely out of the question to do it all with 2t calcium this year. If it takes the majority of a year to get working (as I’ve read elsewhere) I’d rather not wait any longer than needed to fix the problem. I’ve still a big potash deficiency to fix once the pH is on the right track too!

If you use a good quality ground calcium lime it won’t take (as you’ve read elsewhere) the majority of a year to work.

At the very least it will have 40% dust 150 micron or smaller. So if you put on 2t per acre, you will apply AT LEAST 800kg of that fine dust per acre, which will work in no time. Plus the other 1200 kgs of good stuff which may well have even more fine dust in it.

On the flip side, if it’s a good sample, you won’t have anything bigger than a grain of wheat (and not many particles that size) so you won’t have lumps sitting in the ground forever doing nothing.

What area are you in @Gibbybox ?

 

[Sid]

At the very least it will have 40% dust 150 micron or smaller.

This

 

[Sid]

6 month on and you should see the grass. View attachment 957166View attachment 957167

Let's see the dates on the test results.
What was applied and at what application rate?

 

[Gibbybox]

If you use a good quality ground calcium lime it won’t take (as you’ve read elsewhere) the majority of a year to work.

At the very least it will have 40% dust 150 micron or smaller. So if you put on 2t per acre, you will apply AT LEAST 800kg of that fine dust per acre, which will work in no time. Plus the other 1200 kgs of good stuff which may well have even more fine dust in it.

On the flip side, if it’s a good sample, you won’t have anything bigger than a grain of wheat (and not many particles that size) so you won’t have lumps sitting in the ground forever doing nothing.

What area are you in @Gibbybox ?

I’d prefer to stick to ground lime rather than Limex on this one @Derrick Hughes , my location might be unviable for that in any case.

Great to hear your take on it @Cab-over Pete. I’m based in South Lanarkshire and previously have had calcium lime sourced from Tata which is supposed to be very good. The contractor being used this time gets it from Thompsons of Proudhoe. I haven’t had it tested (not sure if that would be usual/recommended) so relying on their word for consistency/adherence to spec.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

2 ton of Limex
Put it in water it desolves, no grit .anyone with a ounce would know its quick acting ,
And its heated in a kiln

 

[Sid]

2 ton of Limex
Put it in water it desolves, no grit .anyone with a ounce would know its quick acting ,
And its heated in a kiln

Which Limex product are you referring to?

what you have failed to mention is it's NV is half that of ground Limestone.

It also states on website is its great for short term annual vegetable growers.
Not for long term ?

Are these facts correct @Derrick Hughes ?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Which Limex product are you referring to?

what you have failed to mention is it's NV is half that of ground Limestone.

It also states on website is its great for short term annual vegetable growers.
Not for long term ?

Are these facts correct @Derrick Hughes ?

"Product Range | LimeX | LimeX70 and LimeX45" https://www.limex.co.uk/products

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Which Limex product are you referring to?

what you have failed to mention is it's NV is half that of ground Limestone.

It also states on website is its great for short term annual vegetable growers.
Not for long term ?

Are these facts correct @Derrick Hughes ?

Your getting stuck on NV again . Why do you put less prilled lime on . Not the NV value its 54 same as Ground Limestone . But because its more available , fine means more available does it not

And before you go on again about me selling it ,I sold one load in two years to a niebour . I use all sorts of lime on my own farm and test to see what works here and what does not

 

[Sid]

Your getting stuck on NV again . Why do you put less prilled lime on . Not the NV value . But because its more available , fine means more available does it not

As I have said its based on NV and amount passing through a 150 micron sieve.

More through fine sieve = readily avaliable.
NV is it's ability to neutralise the acidity.

Limex is a quick fix low NV product.
Short term just like prilled.

6 month on and you should see the grass. View attachment 957166View attachment 957167

Still waiting on the dates and product rate

 

[Derrick Hughes]

As I have said its based on NV and amount passing through a 150 micron sieve.

More through fine sieve = readily avaliable.
NV is it's ability to neutralise the acidity.

Limex is a quick fix low NV product.
Short term just like prilled.


Still waiting on the dates and product rate

1

What please me as well is how it lifted the Phosphate

 

[Sid]

1View attachment 957196View attachment 957197

What please me as well is how it lifted the Phosphate

Phosphate can come from numerous sources.
It may be manures that have been applied, or locked up within the soils.
Most soils have certain nutrients in abundance but not avaliable to the plant.

Be interesting to see the ph again in another 6 months to see if it's a quick fix or long term gain.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

I’d prefer to stick to ground lime rather than Limex on this one @Derrick Hughes , my location might be unviable for that in any case.

Great to hear your take on it @Cab-over Pete. I’m based in South Lanarkshire and previously have had calcium lime sourced from Tata which is supposed to be very good. The contractor being used this time gets it from Thompsons of Proudhoe. I haven’t had it tested (not sure if that would be usual/recommended) so relying on their word for consistency/adherence to spec.

If Thompson’s are involved I very much doubt there will be any problem.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Phosphate can come from numerous sources.
It may be manures that have been applied, or locked up within the soils.
Most soils have certain nutrients in abundance but not avaliable to the plant.

Be interesting to see the ph again in another 6 months to see if it's a quick fix or long term gain.

Yes I agree, that field has had nothing bar lime between the tests as we reseeded it and it rained for 2 months solid after so could not get anything on

 

[Cab-over Pete]

Your getting stuck on NV again . Why do you put less prilled lime on . Not the NV value its 54 same as Ground Limestone . But because its more available , fine means more available does it not

And before you go on again about me selling it ,I sold one load in two years to a niebour . I use all sorts of lime on my own farm and test to see what works here and what does not

Derrick, granular lime, prilled lime is no more available than good quality ground lime. The ground line will have AT LEAST 40% of dust just as fine as the prills are made from.

The prills are not more available or faster acting. It CANNOT and WILL NOT work any faster, it is EXACTLY the same stuff.

Over a period of years, say a decade, you will need to put the same weight of prills on to do the same job as good quality ground lime. Because it’s EXACTLY the same stuff.

Did I not ever mention that before?