Calf scour

[Samcowman]

@Jdunn55 what is your protocol for when you see a calf scouring? If it’s really bad and the calf is weak I give 3 lots of electrolytes on day 1 to give it extra energy and help rehydrate.

 

[som farmer]

I'm sorry but I think that is the most unhelpful comment on the thread. When you are in the midst of a disease outbreak you question everything.
I've been rearing hundreds of calves every spring for the last 8 or so years, with minimal losses. I haven't changed anything this year and I am having a horrendous time with crypto. Someone coming along and saying 'oh but you just have to do it the right way' is really insulting.
@Jdunn55 you have my sympathy, it's soul destroying.

actually its just the basic requirements of the calf, if they are not correct, that calf is at some degree of risk.
We reared 6-700 bought in calves a year, for 8 years, and since then 200+ a year, of home bred calves. Buying off farm, and mkts, and l have seen how some farmers rear calves, till sale, and its not pretty.
Whatever your system, if its not the 'right' environment, if you haven't got your nutrition correct, and those calves, do not have a regular routine, they are at risk, if a bug gets in.
If you have a problem, that you cannot 'solve', it is as much as finding out what it is, and how to avoid it again. One very often forgets, calves are just babies, and just like babies, they respond to routine.
Crypto is pure evil, like you we got hit one year, in our own calves, and its soul destroying, but its why did it 'appear', for one year ? Here, it was a mixture of iodine deficiency, and 'wrong' building - environment, and calves were compromised, allowed it in.
So, as to be insulting, l don't think there is any polite way, to say, get your basics right, and you stand a better chance of rearing decent calves. Any farming mag, you read about the appalling losses of calves, and pages telling you how to rear calves, so its very obviously a big problem. Perhaps l was even to polite, because that message needs to hit home hard, to make sure it sinks in.
So, correct environment, correct nutrition, and regular routine = calves that stand a better chance of avoiding sickness. It is not so much of todays sick calves, as its to stop a repeat happening again, and to get that message across, l don't really care, who l upset, as long as that message gets home.

 

[Jdunn55]

She's alive! I can't quite believe it, genuinely thought she would be dead, but she's running around this morning and drinking

Shanty Town got taken down because I couldn't keep them dry (was using sh!t loads of straw to no avail)
Emptied out my straw shed and took that to dad's and set this up
I don't know if it's better or not but the vets didn't like shanty Town, or the old building and they probably won't like this for some reason, they want me to spend £1000 on calf jackets for every calf

Calves now get tubed with 4litres of colostrum ASAP after birth following advice on here. My vets do not like this and say its too much in one go

They then receive dams milk for atleast 4 days (did this 9n the back of advice from people on here and my vets - still worried about johnes personally)

Calves get fed everyday at 9am and 9pm. 3.6 litres of milk per calf (3 litres warm water and 600g of powder)
Ad lib access to calf pellets, straw and water from birth
Halocure for 10 days
Weaned at 100kg and eating 1kg minimum of concentrates

If something doesn't drink they straight away get tubednwith 2 litres of water + electrolytes and meloxidyl along with a bolus (don't know I'd they work but it makes me feel better)
I will then tube them 3 x per day until drinking again or they are dead
Vet said not to tube with milk as if it enters the rumen (groove won't be open) it will ferment and cause acidosis which if they're already ill this = bad. They also said the electrolytes should provide them with enough energy

I take all their temperatures daily atm to keep an eye on them
I do weekly dung samples
I've sent bloods off
Everything is negative except crypto,
That includes, rota, corona, ecoli, salmonella, cocci etc

I've held off doing a postmortem purely because I spent £1000 on one last year and got no further other than it might be this, that or the next thing, and the reccomendation I had from the lab was to vaccinate with about 4000 vaccines which was going to cost £44 per calf if I remember correctly
But I can do one just not sure how I'm going to pay for it

 

[Jdunn55]

Have you tried the parafor powder?

No but I did speak to my vet about it, they said they've never had a problem with the halocure and that it has always worked?
Think I'll use the last of my halocure up and then move to that

 

[buffalo_soldier]

It's not summat daft like licking the creosote or whatever it is on them sleepers?

 

[Happy at it]

When do you group your calves up, and how do you feed them ? If your on the middle of bother would it be possible to keep individual or in pairs to keep an eye on them better?

 

[In the pit]

I tube my calves with as much colostrum as they can take as soon after birth as possible
you Can’t go on set amount cos bigger calves will take much more than smaller calves

 

[Cows 'n grass]

That looks fairly similar to my beef calf setup. It works fine but for calf health nothing beats hutches

Hutches are a very tennant friendly investment. I have these three just outside the dairy door through spring and the rest are out in a field.

 

[Dead Rabbits]

She's alive! I can't quite believe it, genuinely thought she would be dead, but she's running around this morning and drinking

Shanty Town got taken down because I couldn't keep them dry (was using sh!t loads of straw to no avail)
Emptied out my straw shed and took that to dad's and set this up
I don't know if it's better or not but the vets didn't like shanty Town, or the old building and they probably won't like this for some reason, they want me to spend £1000 on calf jackets for every calf

Calves now get tubed with 4litres of colostrum ASAP after birth following advice on here. My vets do not like this and say its too much in one go

They then receive dams milk for atleast 4 days (did this 9n the back of advice from people on here and my vets - still worried about johnes personally)

Calves get fed everyday at 9am and 9pm. 3.6 litres of milk per calf (3 litres warm water and 600g of powder)
Ad lib access to calf pellets, straw and water from birth
Halocure for 10 days
Weaned at 100kg and eating 1kg minimum of concentrates

If something doesn't drink they straight away get tubednwith 2 litres of water + electrolytes and meloxidyl along with a bolus (don't know I'd they work but it makes me feel better)
I will then tube them 3 x per day until drinking again or they are dead
Vet said not to tube with milk as if it enters the rumen (groove won't be open) it will ferment and cause acidosis which if they're already ill this = bad. They also said the electrolytes should provide them with enough energy

I take all their temperatures daily atm to keep an eye on them
I do weekly dung samples
I've sent bloods off
Everything is negative except crypto,
That includes, rota, corona, ecoli, salmonella, cocci etc

I've held off doing a postmortem purely because I spent £1000 on one last year and got no further other than it might be this, that or the next thing, and the reccomendation I had from the lab was to vaccinate with about 4000 vaccines which was going to cost £44 per calf if I remember correctly
But I can do one just not sure how I'm going to pay for it

Looks like a really good place for a calf.

 

[Holsteinfriesian90]

She's alive! I can't quite believe it, genuinely thought she would be dead, but she's running around this morning and drinking

Shanty Town got taken down because I couldn't keep them dry (was using sh!t loads of straw to no avail)
Emptied out my straw shed and took that to dad's and set this up
I don't know if it's better or not but the vets didn't like shanty Town, or the old building and they probably won't like this for some reason, they want me to spend £1000 on calf jackets for every calf

Calves now get tubed with 4litres of colostrum ASAP after birth following advice on here. My vets do not like this and say its too much in one go

They then receive dams milk for atleast 4 days (did this 9n the back of advice from people on here and my vets - still worried about johnes personally)

Calves get fed everyday at 9am and 9pm. 3.6 litres of milk per calf (3 litres warm water and 600g of powder)
Ad lib access to calf pellets, straw and water from birth
Halocure for 10 days
Weaned at 100kg and eating 1kg minimum of concentrates

If something doesn't drink they straight away get tubednwith 2 litres of water + electrolytes and meloxidyl along with a bolus (don't know I'd they work but it makes me feel better)
I will then tube them 3 x per day until drinking again or they are dead
Vet said not to tube with milk as if it enters the rumen (groove won't be open) it will ferment and cause acidosis which if they're already ill this = bad. They also said the electrolytes should provide them with enough energy

I take all their temperatures daily atm to keep an eye on them
I do weekly dung samples
I've sent bloods off
Everything is negative except crypto,
That includes, rota, corona, ecoli, salmonella, cocci etc

I've held off doing a postmortem purely because I spent £1000 on one last year and got no further other than it might be this, that or the next thing, and the reccomendation I had from the lab was to vaccinate with about 4000 vaccines which was going to cost £44 per calf if I remember correctly
But I can do one just not sure how I'm going to pay for it

That’s similar to our calf shed in pens of 5. Your doing all you can do. Would definitely recommend the parafor powder as we found the halacur wasn’t working. Good luck.

 

[betweenthelines]

Newborns getting 4 litres of colostrum shoved down their throat then after 4 days getting 3.6 litres/feed. It's too much

I'd rather have a live beast that might get johnes than a dead 'un that definitely won't.

New pens look nice but it looks like you have set them up in a previously bedded shed-are they getting an infection from the soiled bedding?

I really don't know why you tube every calf:
As your vet says, it's too much in one go
That much in their stomach will surpress their appetite so they are probably getting less than they should in the first 24 hours.
It's pointless as 99% of calves will feed themselves anyway.
And you complain you've too much to do anyway

I also think you are also overdoing the milk when you take the calf off the cow-start at 4 litres/day and build up gradually as they get used to it-you are moving them from natural milk over several (self) feeds a day to two fairly hefty slugs of milk substitute

 

[coomoo]

If something doesn't drink they straight away get tubednwith 2 litres of water + electrolytes and meloxidyl along with a bolus (don't know I'd they work but it makes me feel better)
I will then tube them 3 x per day until drinking again or they are dead
Vet said not to tube with milk as if it enters the rumen (groove won't be open) it will ferment and cause acidosis which if they're already ill this = bad. They also said the electrolytes should provide them with enough energy

This is where I’d be looking and can’t speak highly enough for hutches. Been through similar with the robot feeder here and made a drastic change after the 000’s of vaccination suggestions aswell lol

 

[Barmyfarmer]

I agree with this alot

Newborns getting 4 litres of colostrum shoved down their throat then after 4 days getting 3.6 litres/feed. It's too much

I'd rather have a live beast that might get johnes than a dead 'un that definitely won't.

New pens look nice but it looks like you have set them up in a previously bedded shed-are they getting an infection from the soiled bedding?

I really don't know why you tube every calf:
As your vet says, it's too much in one go
That much in their stomach will surpress their appetite so they are probably getting less than they should in the first 24 hours.
It's pointless as 99% of calves will feed themselves anyway.
And you complain you've too much to do anyway

I also think you are also overdoing the milk when you take the calf off the cow-start at 4 litres/day and build up gradually as they get used to it-you are moving them from natural milk over several (self) feeds a day to two fairly hefty slugs of milk substitute

 

[Sylution]

She's alive!

Calves get fed everyday at 9am and 9pm.

Great news that your calf is alive. Feeding calves at 9pm? Fair play to you for working these hours, but surely you can feed calves before 6pm, and be done for the day.
What about a poly tunnel calf rearing set up, heard good things about them. The uv light is good for disease problems i think. Worth looking into.


I think you need a hobby or down time for your sanity. One thing i enjoy is having a podcast on, and walk around the farm trapping the moles, or you could measure grass for example. Having the podcast is good for my mind, and the walk for my fitness. Amazing how you can notice different things on the farm when you half switch off. Today for example was fencing and had the 90s tunes by radio 2 on all day. Bliss.

 

[Stinker]

New shed looks great.

I tube every calf at birth anywhere from 1-4 litres. Depends how full they are. You know when they are full because they start to try and move around. I personally believe at least 3-4 days of colostrum works wonders.

If I have a scouring calf I feed as normal and give rehydration between feeds 2 hours later. If the calf is severely dehydrated obviously forget the milk and give electrolytes upto 4 times a day. Offer electrolytes at the first sign of scour even if not dehydrated. In a big pen you won't always see a calf scouring so pinch their skin on their ribs twice daily and treat at the first sign of dehydration.

I used to have lots of problems with scour in the past, I know how debilitating it is on your mental health but I have reared thousands and haven't lost one for years because I know that it's only dehydration that will kill them, so long as you catch it early they will be fine.

I use halocur and rotavec these days and see much less. 1ml of muti min at birth has probably made the biggest difference to general health though and only costs 60p.

 

[Jdunn55]

Great news that your calf is alive. Feeding calves at 9pm? Fair play to you for working these hours, but surely you can feed calves before 6pm, and be done for the day.
What about a poly tunnel calf rearing set up, heard good things about them. The uv light is good for disease problems i think. Worth looking into.


I think you need a hobby or down time for your sanity. One thing i enjoy is having a podcast on, and walk around the farm trapping the moles, or you could measure grass for example. Having the podcast is good for my mind, and the walk for my fitness. Amazing how you can notice different things on the farm when you half switch off. Today for example was fencing and had the 90s tunes by radio 2 on all day. Bliss.

I just want everything to stop going wrong for 5 seconds, just can't seem to catch a break
Just had mum on the phone to say dad's been blue lighted into hospital for suspected adder bite on his wrist and his hands have gone all swollen and black

 

[Happy at it]

Great news that your calf is alive. Feeding calves at 9pm? Fair play to you for working these hours, but surely you can feed calves before 6pm, and be done for the day.
What about a poly tunnel calf rearing set up, heard good things about them. The uv light is good for disease problems i think. Worth looking into.


I think you need a hobby or down time for your sanity. One thing i enjoy is having a podcast on, and walk around the farm trapping the moles, or you could measure grass for example. Having the podcast is good for my mind, and the walk for my fitness. Amazing how you can notice different things on the farm when you half switch off. Today for example was fencing and had the 90s tunes by radio 2 on all day. Bliss.

Are you a one man band, on your farm?

Not being smart, but I think alot of people that question jduun routine have never farmed with no family support, or forgotten how hard it was. If there's only one person doing every task, the day soon goes in. Taking time off for hobbys etc is grand, but if he'll have twice as much work to come too, would it be worth it?

 

[Sylution]

Are you a one man band, on your farm?

Not being smart, but I think alot of people that question jduun have never farmed with no family support, or forgotten how hard it was. If there's only one person doing every task, the day soon goes in. Taking time off for hobbys etc is grand, but if he'll have twice as much work to come too, would it be worth it?

No, thankfully a family farm, and have help. I realise that I am lucky in this sense, and admire @ Jdunn55 for what he has achieved. However life is short and youth is shorter. Weather we succeed or fail in our ambitions in life, not many will give a second thought to it. So most important is that we are comfortable in our life aims. Running a farm is hard, and things can and will go wrong. These days with the costs spiraling it is difficult not to get mentally down when problems occur. I hope your father will make a speedy recovery @Jdunn55 . At least with spring arriving and longer days, things will generally get better.

 

[FED UP]

Try rotavec vaccine for a year,. It’s one vaccine that I won’t stop using. Ideally use before you have problems because it keeps the build up of germs to a minimum. Don’t worry, your not alone in your hassles and losses. I’ve got the t-shirt for most things!

 

[Jdunn55]

Knew it was too good to be true
She died last night and another dying now