Calving Intervention - When?

[sjewart]

proven easy calving one I hope ?

Who knows... can you ever believe the figures? [emoji849]

 

[Henarar]

Who knows... can you ever believe the figures? [emoji849]

that depends who you ask, calving survey should be useful though

 

[sjewart]

that depends who you ask, calving survey should be useful though

Hmmm I have serious doubts. Heard since these went in calf the calving figures used in the catalogue are a load of bull (pardon the pun!)

 

[Grassman247]

I asked if he was a dairy farmer because a live calf is much more important to a suckler farmer than it is to a dairy farmer

as for when to intervene I have made the mistake of going in to quick but have also made the mistake of leaving it to long, its a judgement call based on how it is going

and as for heavily muscled terminal type heifers not being able to calve on there own well we proved that wrong with our first ped heifer who calved on her own and several other peds and heavy cross breeds have since, the majority of them will calve with a little or no intervention but some won't, well that's what we have found

Yes I am a dairy farmer.
1% mortality rate here so we don’t lose many.

An NZ vet Called Kate burnby explained to me years ago, calving ease isn’t just about what they are in calf too, it’s more down to pelvis size, making sure heifers are correct weight before service is where we have gained with not having to assist

 

[Farmer Fin]

Worth a look. https://www.fas.scot/publication/calving-video-guide/

I think there are no hard and fast rules.

There is always a temptation to intervene to early and pull with jack. They need time to open up otherwise you rip the heifer and put undue stress in the calf. Once got involved with a dairy with a high still birth rate. Turned out it was nearly always when one guy was on. Solution was to retrain him as he was going in to early.

Heifers also need somewhere quiet to calve. Constantly messing about with them just slows things up. Need somewhere quiet yet somewhere you can see.

Also learn how to use a jack. It’s a lever and the ratchet is for taking up the slack. Seen far to many people abuse them.

 

[M-J-G]

Yes I am a dairy farmer.
1% mortality rate here so we don’t lose many.

An NZ vet Called Kate burnby explained to me years ago, calving ease isn’t just about what they are in calf too, it’s more down to pelvis size, making sure heifers are correct weight before service is where we have gained with not having to assist

A lot to do with birth weight on the dam side too.
A lot of animals with paternal easy calving will have maternal easy calving too, mainly down to birth weight.

 

[Sharpy]

Messing with them like that will put them off calving imo

Very true. They "stall" with each disturbance, unless they are very well on.

 

[sjewart]

Worth a look. https://www.fas.scot/publication/calving-video-guide/

I think there are no hard and fast rules.

There is always a temptation to intervene to early and pull with jack. They need time to open up otherwise you rip the heifer and put undue stress in the calf. Once got involved with a dairy with a high still birth rate. Turned out it was nearly always when one guy was on. Solution was to retrain him as he was going in to early.

Heifers also need somewhere quiet to calve. Constantly messing about with them just slows things up. Need somewhere quiet yet somewhere you can see.

Also learn how to use a jack. It’s a lever and the ratchet is for taking up the slack. Seen far to many people abuse them.

Thank you. My heifers will be brought into shed 2 weeks before calving. I have cameras in the shed so she can calve away quietly but I can still see what's going on.

 

[Princess Pooper]

Do you put them into a calving gate to check presentation then release them - re-crushing them every hour to check progress?

No, you want to physically disturb them as little as possible other than checking all coming our right (and if all is going well you will be able to see that easy enough without restraining them). If they are twitchy then even seeing you watching them can unsettle some of them. Would need to restrain to check presentation if you can't see feet/nose to put your arm in, but once confirmed all OK then no need to re-crush them every hour, just watch them. You should see feet emerge then nose then head will pop out, then shoulders and hopefully then it is often just a few seconds for the whole lot to come - main thing being to check then that nose is clear and it's breathing and that Mum is up on her feet and licking it. The stage from just water bag to feet sometimes takes a long time but feet to head fully out usually the slowest as that is when she is still dilating and is when the damage can be done. Depends on your facilities of course and if there are other heifers / cows in the same yard but might not even need to restrain if you need to give them a hand-pull as their mind is occupied elsewhere if they are in full blown labour. If you can pop them alone into a small calving pen with a calving gate then that is the best - your gate looks great. Bear in mind that the vast majority will get on with it on their own with no need of assistance.

 

[multi power]

So I realise this is basic stuff but all the same I'd rather ask than be sorry.

What checklist do you guys go by when HEIFERS start calving?

I watch for the water bag, wait for it to burst then give an hour for her to calve before intervening.

I'd then check that the calf is presenting itself properly and try to calve her.

Appreciate a checklist of what you guys do and when.

I believe I'm right in thinking you have children, and you are asking probably a bunch of predominantly men about birth

 

[sjewart]

I believe I'm right in thinking you have children, and you are asking probably a bunch of predominantly men about birth

True [emoji23]

 

[sjewart]

No, you want to physically disturb them as little as possible other than checking all coming our right (and if all is going well you will be able to see that easy enough without restraining them). If they are twitchy then even seeing you watching them can unsettle some of them. Would need to restrain to check presentation if you can't see feet/nose to put your arm in, but once confirmed all OK then no need to re-crush them every hour, just watch them. You should see feet emerge then nose then head will pop out, then shoulders and hopefully then it is often just a few seconds for the whole lot to come - main thing being to check then that nose is clear and it's breathing and that Mum is up on her feet and licking it. The stage from just water bag to feet sometimes takes a long time but feet to head fully out usually the slowest as that is when she is still dilating and is when the damage can be done. Depends on your facilities of course and if there are other heifers / cows in the same yard but might not even need to restrain if you need to give them a hand-pull as their mind is occupied elsewhere if they are in full blown labour. If you can pop them alone into a small calving pen with a calving gate then that is the best - your gate looks great. Bear in mind that the vast majority will get on with it on their own with no need of assistance.

I can give each calver half a shed with a calving gate so hopefully that's helpful.

 

[Princess Pooper]

Looks as though you've got it fairly well planned and a good calving gate, all will be fine as you get more experience, a lot ends up being instinct. Do you have an experienced farmer on speed dial as a 'phone a friend' if you don't want to bother the vet about a minor niggle at night? And bear in mind that no matter how experienced or how much care someone puts in, occasionally we all lose one. The metacam is good advice, we always give some after a protracted or assisted calving will reduce inflammation and give pain relief and let her concentrate on her calf not on how sore she feels. Many people also offer an immediate post-calving drench to replenish fluids and minerals although it's not something we do as routine.

 

[multi power]

If someone says come quickly a cow is calving I normally go and put the kettle on before I even think about going to look

 

[Karliboy]

I’ve come across this problem a few times. I Only calves down 20 cows a year but it’s a toss up what to do especially with working full time.
Last 3 years I’ve lost 5 calves between lunch and with nothing happening and 5pm where everything is presented correctly but calves have now got swollen heads tounge etc just barely alive just cows not getting on with it. Give them a slight pull for encouragement and they start pushing get calf out but they ended up dead within 30 mins.
I just think it’s bad luck really but then I do feel it’s bad management on my part sometimes.

 

[M-J-G]

Very true. They "stall" with each disturbance, unless they are very well on.

The better natured they are the less disturbed the are when you check them.

 

[sjewart]

Looks as though you've got it fairly well planned and a good calving gate, all will be fine as you get more experience, a lot ends up being instinct. Do you have an experienced farmer on speed dial as a 'phone a friend' if you don't want to bother the vet about a minor niggle at night? And bear in mind that no matter how experienced or how much care someone puts in, occasionally we all lose one. The metacam is good advice, we always give some after a protracted or assisted calving will reduce inflammation and give pain relief and let her concentrate on her calf not on how sore she feels. Many people also offer an immediate post-calving drench to replenish fluids and minerals although it's not something we do as routine.

Yes I have a long suffering farmer friend who willingly helps me out but he is frequently out of the country and iv never contacted him in the dead of night.

How much metacam do you give? A full dose? My heifers could easy be touching 800kg [emoji30]

 

[Sir loin]

I have a new calving gate. Intend to put them in it to check presentation but only put them back in it again if I have to intervene later on. View attachment 756276

Hope your water trough is not in the way when and if you have to jack a calf out.

 

[Whitepeak]

This is a good tread, I think I’m guilty of diving in too early I’ve only a small number to worry about but why do they alway start at 11pm when I want to go to bed my lot are due to start next month and I’ve told myself to be more patient!

That was the issue with the one I calved the other night, it was right at the end of the night milking at just gone 11pm. She was an older cow with a reasonable sized heifer calf so she probably would have calved herself fine if left alone and given more time. However I didn't fancy leaving her until the morning shift came in at 5am to find either a dead calf, dead cow or both! If it was one of mine at home I would probably have gone in for a brew for half an hour then reassess.

 

[sjewart]

Hope your water trough is not in the way when and if you have to jack a calf out.

I hope so too! I have calved with the jack there before with a big standard gate and it's been OK so fingers