Calving Intervention - When?

[Happy]

I have a new calving gate. Intend to put them in it to check presentation but only put them back in it again if I have to intervene later on. View attachment 756276

Remember you having a thread on here a month or so ago about which calving gate to go for.
Is that one of the Irish makes you got in the end? If so where did you get it from?
Carrs & Davidson’s just seem to do Ritchie or IAE but like the look of those fold flat against the wall type.

 

[CharcoalWally]

Yes, but heifers are usually more easily wound up. And it wouldn't be the first time the petted one went nuts with the stress.

Been thinking about this since I read your post @Sharpy ,,and I can't honestly say that I find this here.

Very unusual for a heifer to behave differently to a mature cow at calving, they just know themselves what's going on. So they should, genetically it's what their life is all leading up to . To be blunt, it's Nature telling them what they're here for.

Once a heifer starts calving, just leave her alone. I won't even stand in the shed with them. If I can peer over the wall without letting her see me, ;then fine, but calvings are all very different, and it all depends on the farmer having done his/her bit to prepare the heifer for her first calving. - sensible management, condition of heifer ( not over- fat, certainly not lean, ) what's the bull she's in calf to like for calving ease, pelvic room, etc etc.

Calvings will vary hugely from farm to farm and individual farmers have to assess for themselves where they fall on the curve.

 

[puppet]

But alone out on the hill it's a different discipline.

Will she let me check presentation out here?
(talk quietly, approaching from oblique rear angle)
Where did I leave the calving aid?
Can I get a rope on that foot out here? (once you've got a rope on, you can usually take her attention by tugging a bit)
Once started.... can I reach that calving aid now she's moved a bit, and if I stopped tugging to reach back for it, will she up and bolt?
If this calf slithers out easy, is she going to jump up and have a go? How far away exactly is the nearest fence/hedge/gate/ boulder to climb on?

If away in middle of a field then if you can get a calving rope on then have a long rope maybe 20 feet tied to it. That way if she starts to walk off or keep turning in circles you have something to catch again.
For extra help then tie it to a post or quad bike and as she walks forward you just lean down on the rope or pull it sideways to give extra leverage. NOT to be dragged by the bike!
Another trick is to tie the long rope 2 feet from a gate hinge then use the gate to work like a calving jack.

 

[Sharpy]

Been thinking about this since I read your post @Sharpy ,,and I can't honestly say that I find this here.

Very unusual for a heifer to behave differently to a mature cow at calving, they just know themselves what's going on. So they should, genetically it's what their life is all leading up to . To be blunt, it's Nature telling them what they're here for.

Once a heifer starts calving, just leave her alone. I won't even stand in the shed with them. If I can peer over the wall without letting her see me, ;then fine, but calvings are all very different, and it all depends on the farmer having done his/her bit to prepare the heifer for her first calving. - sensible management, condition of heifer ( not over- fat, certainly not lean, ) what's the bull she's in calf to like for calving ease, pelvic room, etc etc.

Calvings will vary hugely from farm to farm and individual farmers have to assess for themselves where they fall on the curve.

You have home bred heifers do you not? Or are your replacement stock bought on looks at the market and a chance taken? Your own stock that you know, that you didn't select for aggression or nervousness (which can be worse) are very different. . Also, you have Simmentals, not limmy angus crosses or the like. (If you want real excitement try limousin cross highlanders).

 

[CharcoalWally]

Yes, every animal on the place is homebred. Haven't bought a commercial breeding female in since 1995. Wasn't only because you didn't know the temperament of what you were buying, but I suppose looking back that might have been a part of it.

I don't miss the excitement of finding out if you've bought a nutcase or not - one jet black heifer with a jet black heifer calf came flying down the ramp of the float one jet black October night, crossed the yard in three strides, hurdled the wall with three strands of barb on top, ( so did the calf) , and disappeared into the night. Found them the next morning grazing up at the fank dyke happy as Larry . She turned out ok, some of them were more unpredictable .

I don't like unpredictable.

 

[Sharpy]

Yes, every animal on the place is homebred. Haven't bought a commercial breeding female in since 1995. Wasn't only because you didn't know the temperament of what you were buying, but I suppose looking back that might have been a part of it.

I don't miss the excitement of finding out if you've bought a nutcase or not - one jet black heifer with a jet black heifer calf came flying down the ramp of the float one jet black October night, crossed the yard in three strides, hurdled the wall with three strands of barb on top, ( so did the calf) , and disappeared into the night. Found them the next morning grazing up at the fank dyke happy as Larry . She turned out ok, some of them were more unpredictable .

I don't like unpredictable.

If I was you I would stick to your current plan, I prefer boring these days.

 

[CharcoalWally]

If I was you I would stick to your current plan, I prefer boring these days.

Ain't no plans on changin' dude.

 

[sjewart]

Remember you having a thread on here a month or so ago about which calving gate to go for.
Is that one of the Irish makes you got in the end? If so where did you get it from?
Carrs & Davidson’s just seem to do Ritchie or IAE but like the look of those fold flat against the wall type.

You remember correctly and yes it's an Irish gate. See below. It's from Bo Steel.

 

[egbert]

If away in middle of a field then if you can get a calving rope on then have a long rope maybe 20 feet tied to it. That way if she starts to walk off or keep turning in circles you have something to catch again.
For extra help then tie it to a post or quad bike and as she walks forward you just lean down on the rope or pull it sideways to give extra leverage. NOT to be dragged by the bike!
Another trick is to tie the long rope 2 feet from a gate hinge then use the gate to work like a calving jack.

'.....and that was the last we ever saw of that heifer. Or the quadbike!'

seriously, my problem with using a fixed point would be the minute she's shifted, it'd never be pulling in the right direction.(but needs must when the devils stuck in traffic)

 

[puppet]

'.....and that was the last we ever saw of that heifer. Or the quadbike!'

seriously, my problem with using a fixed point would be the minute she's shifted, it'd never be pulling in the right direction.(but needs must when the devils stuck in traffic)

Forgot to say put the brakes on .
A fixed point is fine as when she tries to walk away she feels the pull and straightens herself up. Also stops too much pressure as she will stop walking at that point.
As you say, not my first choice, but alone at night and scared to phone my wife for some help to get a cow in???

 

[AGN76]

You remember correctly and yes it's an Irish gate. See below. It's from Bo Steel.

Think I recommended that one.
Must phone them for my commission

 

[sjewart]

Think I recommended that one.
Must phone them for my commission

Aye OK but if it doesn't work well you'll be getting the flack

 

[multi power]

It worked well, in five years there I think we lost 1 cow to milk fever. Dry cow management helped too, but they were strong durable British Fresian type, not overstressed Holstein.

I don't think I have ever lost a cow to milk fever, all giving calcium does is hide the symptoms, it doesn't cure the cause of the problem

 

[Extreme Optimist]

2 things have made a huge difference here.

1. Changing from General Purpose Suckler Minerals for the last month prior to calving to high mag dry cow minerals. Ironically, having spoken to the vet, in the last month the General Purpose Minerals were making things worse rather than better due to Calcium/Magnesium imbalance. The cows and heifers now calve more easily and heifers are much more interested in their calves than they used to be.

2. Calving camera. I would never have believed how much difference that this would make. It is not just the fact that you can spot them calving, it's that you don't need to disturb them every 15 minutes. I am sure this puts calving back further and further. The cows can just relax and get on with it quietly and you only need to intervene if you have given them a good chance to get on with it by themselves.
I reckon it makes a huge difference with the mothering ability of the heifers too. If you are standing there, they spend more time watching you rather than the calf and get easily upset at everything that is going on. With the camera, you can give them every chance to bond well with the calf.

I think the calving camera has to be just about the best investment I have ever made on the farm and they should certainly be included in the Government's grant schemes.

 

[AgriBusiness Plans]

If you can get this right you are better than a vast number of obstetricians and midwives if the press is to be believed.

 

[egbert]

Forgot to say put the brakes on .
A fixed point is fine as when she tries to walk away she feels the pull and straightens herself up. Also stops too much pressure as she will stop walking at that point.
As you say, not my first choice, but alone at night and scared to phone my wife for some help to get a cow in???

aah...now we're onto marital influences on calving management...thats a different kettle of ketchup again!

 

[Cluny]

This thread has been full of very good advice -principally that hfrs take a lot longer than you think, and they're best left as undisturbed as you can make yourself (....except when they're not, and you'll be a freekin genius if you differentiate between the two)


But alone out on the hill it's a different discipline.
When i get round to finding a cow calving on a spring morning -and while some are close by, checked at sparrowfart, others are roaming far and wide and it could be mid-day before they're seen ( if they're lucky) - there's the question of when she started?
How dry is the residue of the bag?
Has she got toes showing?
Are they the right way up?
Are the toes looking dry? Is his little nose looking swollen?

Will she let me check presentation out here?
(talk quietly, approaching from oblique rear angle)
Where did I leave the calving aid?
Can I get a rope on that foot out here? (once you've got a rope on, you can usually take her attention by tugging a bit)
Is there reason to suspect that she'll need additional input post parturition? (she might be much more/less ambulatory once calved)
How far away is the nearest crush/ pen/corner behind a gate?
Who else haven't i seen yet?

If I go off and check another bunch/give her more time/go back for the calving aid...will the crabbed creature stay here?
Or will she know she's been spotted, and sneak off somewhere else to hide in a gorse bush?
(oh that happens)

Once started.... can I reach that calving aid now she's moved a bit, and if I stopped tugging to reach back for it, will she up and bolt?
If this calf slithers out easy, is she going to jump up and have a go? How far away exactly is the nearest fence/hedge/gate/ boulder to climb on?
Once she's got it out, how far will she roam to deposit cleansings, or am I going to be playing guessing games in 6-7 days time ?
(Did she eat them all, or is she about to blow up with a sceptic crisis?)
Where has she hidden that soddin calf now?
Whose effing calf is THIS? (twins on the hill are rare, but cause all manner of problems, as the dams will often bring them out on parade alternately).

The more i think about it, the more I like the idea of having them in a building, where you know exactly where they'll be tomorrow morning.
Sounds much more sense.

So very true that ticked all my boxes decisions decisions!!! [emoji106]

 

[ollie989898]

Yes I am a dairy farmer.
1% mortality rate here so we don’t lose many.

An NZ vet Called Kate burnby explained to me years ago, calving ease isn’t just about what they are in calf too, it’s more down to pelvis size, making sure heifers are correct weight before service is where we have gained with not having to assist

I know of her she was/is a very good vet.

 

[andyt87]

Got a cow calving now, been 2 hours since water bag, and other than walking around and grazing she hasn't done anything! Stood facing corner of field now tail swishing, but that's all.

She seperated herself this morning, and heifer came and calved next to her so she walked away from the fuss.

Wondering maybe another rhour before a look but not sure?

 

[czechmate]

I’d be wanting to feel if there is a problem by now