Can air or ground source heat pumps work in old buildings?

[ollie989898]

Could we produce enough of that?

I don't know, but consider that the bulk of the UK vehicle fleet will switch to electricity within 15 years so you will have far less fuel to source to begin with. Suddenly finding enough biologically sourced oil won't seem quite so daunting.

 

[Raumer]

I have seen an HVO type fuel available as an equivalent to heating oil/kerosene. Just can't remember where I saw it!

Important to note that the UK vehicle fleet is changing to no diesel/petrol only engined vehicles being sold in 15 years. They will still be able to sell hybrids. And far more importantly there will still be millions of vehicles on the road that use diesel & petrol. It will be at least another ten years after that date before you see a big change in amount of fuel used. And it may well take longer, this is why bio-fuels are going to be very important. Along with other solutions like battery, fuel cell and hydrogen combustion engines.

 

[ollie989898]

I have seen an HVO type fuel available as an equivalent to heating oil/kerosene. Just can't remember where I saw it!

Important to note that the UK vehicle fleet is changing to no diesel/petrol only engined vehicles being sold in 15 years. They will still be able to sell hybrids. And far more importantly there will still be millions of vehicles on the road that use diesel & petrol. It will be at least another ten years after that date before you see a big change in amount of fuel used. And it may well take longer, this is why bio-fuels are going to be very important. Along with other solutions like battery, fuel cell and hydrogen combustion engines.

HVO Renewable Fuels As An Alternative To Kerosene Heating Oil Trials — James D Bilsland Ltd

Hydrotreated Vegetable Oil (HVO), is a fossil-free renewable fuel produced from certified waste fats and oils and is manufactured by a synthesised process with hydrogen to create a greener, renewable fuel.We strongly believe that renewable fuel alongside Kerosene and other measures have a part to pl

www.jamesdbilsland.com

 

[renewablejohn]

Very happy with it but the MVHR is a Partel system so you dont have multiple pipes just two pipes on a section, The fans are balanced so as one sucks the other blows and so the 90% of the heat retained is blown back into the house the rest of the section air sealed. With the farmhouse being T shaped we have 4 sections on 2 levels so 8 fans in total. Really keeps the fabric of the building good which is why it was a condition of the listed building consent as English Heritage recommended it. Never known anything so good for extracting moisture and with dry walls the insulation is so much better. Only thing not happy with is the control unit being German it does bot fit properly in UK electric box but will eventually rectify using german wall mount electric boxes.

 

[roscoe erf]

Heat pump proposals ‘grossly unfair’ to rural communities - Farmers Weekly

Plans to force rural property owners in England to replace oil-fired heating systems with heat pumps almost a decade earlier than their counterparts who

www.fwi.co.uk

 

[Hfd Cattle]

The success of GSH is the length of the 'hoops' in the ground . Avoid a 'Zigzag' type system in the back garden as this will eventually 'chill' the ground and become ineffective . Long 'U' shaped loops in a field is the most successful with a slow liquid flow. It takes less heat out of the ground and allows the ground to 'repair' itself thus becoming more effective.
It's not the building that restricts the success of GSH but more what you can do to it .ie listed buildings may be more difficult to insulate because of restrictions and you might not be able to dig the floor up .
No heating is really successful in a draughty house ......I was born and brought up in one !

 

[Andy26]

What he said about internal lining with insulation and new plasterboard. Our house has 18” solid stone walls, I battened all external facing walls with 2x2 battens every 15 “ or so and infilled between with Kingspan and then plasterboarded over. House is 4 bed detached and has oil fired aga and oil central heating. Average oil consumption for both AGA and boiler has been 11 litres per day over last 15 years.

Recently changed boiler to more modern condensing boiler, had thought about ground source or air source but economics just didn’t stack up.

Alchad

Have you had any problems with condensation forming between the internal stone wall and the insulation?

 

[Andy26]

Like what?

Local pub is running an oil boiler on HVO

Pub is at heart of heating trial for homes that don’t get gas

A potential alternative to expensive heat pumps for homes that don't get gas is being explored and a village pub is part of the trial.

www.stamfordmercury.co.uk

 

[Lakesdigger]

I'm not a fan of the "heat" from the ground statement that's always attached to GSHP. Imho whilst it's not completely untrue I don't think it's necessarily an honest way of explaining how they work and probably why people are often shocked as to true running costs (I'm not necessarily saying they are v expensive but people often seem to expect it's free). The fluid circulating in the ground loops is coming back into your home barely any different in temp than you're cold tap, you wouldn't exactly call that heat. It's just the fact that what you are pumping back out is 4 to 6 deg colder (after its been through a fridge in reverse effectively) to circulate round and warm back up. But consider the fact that to get that 4 to 6 deg back might need 500 to 750 meters of pipe underground that's why I don't fully agree with the heat from the ground tag.

 

[chickens and wheat]

I see it as heat from compressing gas, the 'waste product' is ice and this is disposed of in a ground loop

 

[Hfd Cattle]

I'm not a fan of the "heat" from the ground statement that's always attached to GSHP. Imho whilst it's not completely untrue I don't think it's necessarily an honest way of explaining how they work and probably why people are often shocked as to true running costs (I'm not necessarily saying they are v expensive but people often seem to expect it's free). The fluid circulating in the ground loops is coming back into your home barely any different in temp than you're cold tap, you wouldn't exactly call that heat. It's just the fact that what you are pumping back out is 4 to 6 deg colder (after its been through a fridge in reverse effectively) to circulate round and warm back up. But consider the fact that to get that 4 to 6 deg back might need 500 to 750 meters of pipe underground that's why I don't fully agree with the heat from the ground tag.

Not sure why people are shocked at the true running costs . Installed correctly it is very efficient and economical to run . The big expense is putting it in but that is offset by the economy of running it .

 

[Timbo]

Not sure why people are shocked at the true running costs . Installed correctly it is very efficient and economical to run . The big expense is putting it in but that is offset by the economy of running it .

The issue now, is the huge increase in electricity price, there's no question on efficiency.

 

[Alchad]

Andy26,

RE your query (Have you had any problems with condensation forming between the internal stone wall and the insulation?)

Not that I'm aware of. To be honest I only came across this as a potential problem after I'd done the work, but it's been 15 years since it was done so maybe I was lucky, or maybe it's not that much of a problem??

Alchad

 

[Lakesdigger]

Not sure why people are shocked at the true running costs . Installed correctly it is very efficient and economical to run . The big expense is putting it in but that is offset by the economy of running it .

Take the RHI payments out of the equation as they don't last forever and there's v little difference between running costs for ground source and an oil/gas boiler on a well installed/designed system. My point is those installing/selling them (even govt to be fair) try to tell people they cost f'all and it simply isn't true. The biggest cost savings heating a home are not the heat source itself but the installation/system design and insulation of the building.

 

[Hfd Cattle]

The issue now, is the huge increase in electricity price, there's no question on efficiency.

Yes your right. We are pretty self sufficient with solar panels and solar powered battery pack so that makes ours cheap to run and it also runs the borehole.
I would do it again though very efficient

 

[Skimmer]

Seems we will all be forced to instal heat pumps as the government wants to do away with oil boilers

 

[JD6920s]

Seems we will all be forced to instal heat pumps as the government wants to do away with oil boilers

They’d best pay for them then!

 

[Hfd Cattle]

Yes your right. We are pretty self sufficient with solar panels and solar powered battery pack so that makes ours cheap to run and it also runs the borehole.
I would do it again though very efficient

........but it's a bugger when the bore hole pump packs up ......like our did last night !!