Can I be kicked off?

[Yale]

Hypothetical situation locally.

Landlord would be keen to remove the tenant.

Two scenarios,tenant has never signed a rental agreement so assumedly would be safe as the rent has been paid every year on the dot,talking 30+ years.

Second scenario a grazing agreement,short term could possibly have been signed in the first few years however no agreement has been signed in recent past,10+ years however again rent paid on the dot.

Can the tenant be kicked off because an agreement had been signed at some point however has not been signed for many years,just rent paid?

BTW nothing to do with me on either side however a situation I have come across.

 

[chipchap]

The legal position is probably very different from the moral position.

Some time ago I rented some land as a grazing agreement, which morphed into a FBT when the basic payment came in. The owner was elderly at the time so I made sure our discussions and agreements were documented either as formal tenancy documents or letters.

Subsequently after the owner died I was able to provide evidence of what had been agreed in the past, in fact preventing my own solicitor stirring up a can of worms.

Never proceed without fully documenting everything agreed. It may protect you, or it may protect the other side; but it will always maintain your integrity.

 

[mo!]

Depending on the year the rent started to be paid, one year notice on the day rent is due (so up to two years in practice).

 

[flowerpot]

You need someone who really knows agricultural law!

I thought that if there wasn't a written agreement, but the rent had been paid regularly, then the situation became by default a tenancy. But I don't really know.

There is a small field that we graze that is owned by the church. The previous tenant started to pay the rent by a business cheque, which meant that his business was the tenant. The church authorities was very upset with the agent that accepted this cheque for payment because he must have died over 20 years ago, but his widow/business is still the tenant and we pay the rent to her.

We also rent other church land and I notice that the tenancy agreement is very specific about who is the tenant and the general terms.

 

[som farmer]

friend in very similar situation, cottage rented by him for 30+ years, farm has changed hands several times - quarries involved. Each new owner has tried, legally, mentally and physically (bailiffs) un successfully to oust him. Because he has paid his rent, to owner, or solicitor, if they refuse to accept it, they cannot get him out, moved now. And he gets his rent, set by the 'rent officer' from his local council. And any legal costs involved, are born by l/lord, because they are acting illegally ! Not a position l would want to be in, ended up by him being left a house.




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[Will Blackburn]

They wouldn’t want to mention a grazing agreement and also ask to see landlord’s evidence for such. If it was a grazing agreement till 10 years ago then that would at best be an FBT. 30+ years as tenant with no paperwork would default to an AHA.
Sounds like it maybe a grazing agreement of FBT.

 

[Nearly]

30+ years could fall either side of the dividing line for AHA?

1986 wasn't it?

 

[Forkdriver]

30+ years could fall either side of the dividing line for AHA?

1986 wasn't it?

No, that was the last AHA, but FBT's didn't come in until 1995 Agricultural Tenancies Act, so 30 years plus is firmly into AHA territory. There are certain actions that may muddy the waters, so take advice.
The second scenario could be either an fbt or grazing agreement depending on the circumstances. Again, take advice.

 

[Still Farming]

Who is the red hot go to on these type issues as often local legal firms not upto it often?

 

[Forkdriver]

Who is the red hot go to on these type issues as often local legal firms not upto it often?

Burges Salmon in Bristol probably your nearest.

 

[Still Farming]

Burges Salmon in Bristol probably your nearest.

Pink is best still then?

 

[Yale]

I was going to suggest this guy to the tenant involved as I know they do a lot of this stuff and have a track record.

Never dealt with them before.

Our Team | Davis Meade

At Davis Meade Property Consultants, we believe that our people are our principal asset, and take great pride in ensuring that everyone, whatever their role, is carefully picked to ensure they fit in with our principles and goals.

www.dmpropertyconsultants.com

 

[Will Blackburn]

I was going to suggest this guy to the tenant involved as I know they do a lot of this stuff and have a track record.

Never dealt with them before.

Our Team | Davis Meade

At Davis Meade Property Consultants, we believe that our people are our principal asset, and take great pride in ensuring that everyone, whatever their role, is carefully picked to ensure they fit in with our principles and goals.

www.dmpropertyconsultants.com

The LL would know they were serious.

 

[le bon paysan]

I was going to suggest this guy to the tenant involved as I know they do a lot of this stuff and have a track record.

Never dealt with them before.

Our Team | Davis Meade

At Davis Meade Property Consultants, we believe that our people are our principal asset, and take great pride in ensuring that everyone, whatever their role, is carefully picked to ensure they fit in with our principles and goals.

www.dmpropertyconsultants.com

Only meet him once, he came with his dad Barry. Worked for us from 1988 to 2003 when we left to farm in France.

 

[Dry Rot]

Have you considered finding a suitable alternative and offering a cash incentive to move? If he's old, perhaps somewhere more convenient? You'll catch more flies with honey than you will vinegar.

 

[yellow belly]

if there is no written agreement and there has never been on then the rules are a lot different to is there was a written agreement even if it has expired

need proper expert advice either way from an agricultural lawyer or agricultural surveyer
non ag people will have very little on the issues

 

[mo!]

Who is the red hot go to on these type issues as often local legal firms not upto it often?

Kelly Kirby, Property & Agricultural Litigation Partner at gunnercooke

Kelly has specialised in property and land disputes since 2002 and has extensive experience in providing estate management and dispute advice.

gunnercooke.com

Don't be put off by the fancy website. She is a farmer's wife and knows her stuff.

 

[neilo]

I was going to suggest this guy to the tenant involved as I know they do a lot of this stuff and have a track record.

Never dealt with them before.

Our Team | Davis Meade

At Davis Meade Property Consultants, we believe that our people are our principal asset, and take great pride in ensuring that everyone, whatever their role, is carefully picked to ensure they fit in with our principles and goals.

www.dmpropertyconsultants.com

I’ve never spoken with him but I know several tenants locally that have. I understand he is the ‘go to’ locally on tenancy issues, and is certainly on the TFA recommended professionals list.

 

[glasshouse]

friend in very similar situation, cottage rented by him for 30+ years, farm has changed hands several times - quarries involved. Each new owner has tried, legally, mentally and physically (bailiffs) un successfully to oust him. Because he has paid his rent, to owner, or solicitor, if they refuse to accept it, they cannot get him out, moved now. And he gets his rent, set by the 'rent officer' from his local council. And any legal costs involved, are born by l/lord, because they are acting illegally ! Not a position l would want to be in, ended up by him being left a house.




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Thats how all houses should be let.
That would sort the housing bubble

 

[unlacedgecko]

Thats how all houses should be let.
That would sort the housing bubble

No