Can we all carry on farming?

[glasshouse]

I just think you are blaming other farmers for something that is essentially human nature within the society we live in. Opportunity is there.

Opportunity is not there
Contract farmers are on a treadmill that they cant get off and cant refuse more land.
The invites are sent out to the usual suspects under the table. Less than 10% are ever “advertised“
Land that would be better in grass gets ploughed because no one can be arsed to do anything different

 

[jendan]

We use glyphosate, like every other farmer I know, apart from the organic ones.
if it went we would have to find ways, happy to admit we are too reliant on it at the moment.

How much of the 5000 acres will get at least one pass with Glyphosate in an average year? Is it possible to DD without it and still get acceptable yields?

 

[ajd132]

How much of the 5000 acres will get at least one pass with Glyphosate in an average year? Is it possible to DD without it and still get acceptable yields?

Dd/till/plough makes no difference, all using it. We use less now actually than we used to with cults and ploughing.
Everything will get one pass.
Grass weeds are the issue here otherwise alternative methods such as crimping could be used.
Always looking for ways to do without it as I don’t like how reliant we are on its, not a position I’m comfortable with really.
Mulches, stripped straw covering, inter row how’s, weed seed strippers/collectors, weed seed destructors on combines, chaff decks, clover understory etc - all stuff being looked at.

 

[jendan]

Dd/till/plough makes no difference, all using it. We use less now actually than we used to with cults and ploughing.
Everything will get one pass.
Grass weeds are the issue here otherwise alternative methods such as crimping could be used.
Always looking for ways to do without it as I don’t like how reliant we are on its, not a position I’m comfortable with really.
Mulches, stripped straw covering, inter row how’s, weed seed strippers/collectors, weed seed destructors on combines, chaff decks, clover understory etc - all stuff being looked at.

Its going to take a fair bit of time to get round 5000 acres with an inter row hoe. In other words,if it gets banned,or becomes unaffordable,youre f*cked.

 

[jendan]

Dd/till/plough makes no difference, all using it. We use less now actually than we used to with cults and ploughing.
Everything will get one pass.
Grass weeds are the issue here otherwise alternative methods such as crimping could be used.
Always looking for ways to do without it as I don’t like how reliant we are on its, not a position I’m comfortable with really.
Mulches, stripped straw covering, inter row how’s, weed seed strippers/collectors, weed seed destructors on combines, chaff decks, clover understory etc - all stuff being looked at.

What would you consider to be an acceptable net margin/profit per acre figure per year? (counting all costs,and not counting any subsidy payments.)

 

[Clive]

Its high time we sent all the contract farmers to coventry and boycotted them as they are hogging all the land and allowing the subsidies to flow to the undeserving filthy rich.

its no different to rent in reality - just in a way thats more tax efficient for a landowner

should you only be allowed to farm if you own all your land ? ……… sounds very elitist to me


i guess your beef is with scale really not cfa’s ?

 

[Clive]

So subsidise only small farms and a load of clapped out old buildings in order to retain some romantic notion of the 1960’s?
also what you are suggesting could stop small farmers tapping into a lucrative income stream renovating old buildings for other uses.
What you are suggesting is a literally an attempt to freeze farms into a time warp.

ie even greater market distortion !


if my small farm was still as it wad 25 yrs ago ……… i wouldn’t be farming at now

 

[Ivorbiggun]

I know you are trying to wind us up, but I'll bite!

There are as many types and financial positions as there are farmers - you are right that some of the high profile farmers are making some serious money (and are driving expensive motors) - there are a lot who stay under the radar and just manage to make a living. And there are even more who stagger from crisis to crisis, depending on the autumn subsidy cheque to keep them in business for another year.

You can't generalise about such a disparate industry.

(I am an under-the-radar type, with a Berlingo van, and a bike to get me around the farm)

Not trying to wind anybody up.
But everyone is in the same situation at the moment, with the cost of living rising far more than wages.
Look how much your supermarket bill has gone up in the last year, fuel at the pumps etc.
Everybody is in the same boat, yes things are tight, but if you can’t make a living out of it then go and do something else, there are alternatives out there.

 

[ajd132]

Its going to take a fair bit of time to get round 5000 acres with an inter row hoe. In other words,if it gets banned,or becomes unaffordable,youre f*cked.

Organic farmer nearby has a couple of 9m hoes on a big area, camera guided. Huge work rates on these things. You are correct that a vast amount of farming in this country would be f**ked without glyphosate because of our worrying reliance on it, as I’ve pointed out already.
what are you trying to get at Jendan?

 

[ajd132]

What would you consider to be an acceptable net margin/profit per acre figure per year? (counting all costs,and not counting any subsidy payments.

That would depend on the earning potential of the season but I’m not going to start putting stuff like that on this forum and inviting more grief from people on here.

should have known better than to waste time getting into this then having to explain myself to a load a random people on here. Silly me.

 

[kiwi pom]

its no different to rent in reality - just in a way thats more tax efficient for a landowner

should you only be allowed to farm if you own all your land ? ……… sounds very elitist to me


i guess your beef is with scale really not cfa’s ?

I don't really understand the details of contract farming, why don't these landowners who don't want to farm just rent out the farm to you?
How much say do they get with how and what you crop?
I don't know why but the whole contract farming thing just seems a bit wrong somehow.

 

[ajd132]

I don't really understand the details of contract farming, why don't these landowners who don't want to farm just rent out the farm to you?
How much say do they get with how and what you crop?
I don't know why but the whole contract farming thing just seems a bit wrong somehow.

It’s basically a way to get around inheritance tax rules. Because the land owner is taking a trading risk they are classed as an active farmer so qualify for tax break, don’t get that with renting land out.
it would be far simpler and less beuracratic for those farming the land to just rent it.

 

[SilliamWhale]

i see a post yesterday from a farmer in ukraine that had just finished fert spreading for the day.. 3,700 hectares was covered

That's a lot of ink on the clipboard for Red Tractor.

 

[Spud]

ie even greater market distortion !


if my small farm was still as it wad 25 yrs ago ……… i wouldn’t be farming at now

Why not?

 

[SilliamWhale]

Agree, its a weird position to be in. the only thing i can unequivocally say is i am pleased we pulled our finger out of arse and started zero tilling properly a few years ago, to the point where we are now really comfortable with the system. I simply could not afford the fuel, labour and more frequent machinery replacements/repairs of a min till/rotational plough system. That’s one of the few things we can control which can save us a lot of money.

I'm at the opposite end of the spectrum with a much smaller farm but the principal is the same. No till sings away nicely with lower investment, great soils and time for other stuff

 

[kiwi pom]

It’s basically a way to get around inheritance tax rules. Because the land owner is taking a trading risk they are classed as an active farmer so qualify for tax break, don’t get that with renting land out.
it would be far simpler and less beuracratic for those farming the land to just rent it.

I see, so perhaps I'm right in feeling its a bit naughty, even if its legal.
Do they actually have any risk, who decides on cropping, who its sold to etc.

 

[MrNoo]

Mixed farming is the future, not wall to wall cereals
Contract farming without any suitable buildings cant deliver that.
More importantly it cant keep farmers
In business

You talk utter rubbish,
Barn/building conversions to units provides an invaluable income stream to a lot of smaller farms. My father did that here nearly 40 years ago and I can can comfortably tell you that the income generated is substantially more in a year than what the farm here generates (550ac arable).
Not only that it adds life back to some of these old yards and local community.

 

[ajd132]

I see, so perhaps I'm right in feeling its a bit naughty, even if its legal.
Do they actually have any risk, who decides on cropping, who its sold to

The contractor gets paid first whatever which is I think where the risk thing is covered.

 

[Spud]

You talk utter rubbish,
Barn/building conversions to units provides an invaluable income stream to a lot of smaller farms. My father did that here nearly 40 years ago and I can can comfortably tell you that the income generated is substantially more in a year than what the farm here generates (550ac arable).
Not only that it adds life back to some of these old yards and local community.

Not everyone has convertible buildings, convenient location or appropriate ownership to do that

 

[Tarw Coch]

if my small farm was still as it wad 25 yrs ago ……… i wouldn’t be farming at now

I seem to recall you posting in the past that you started out on a big farm

You might not have described it as such but I seem to recall 300 acres mentioned