Capital Sentences...

[wanton dwarf]

I tried to persuade someone who was in a senior position looking after murderers such as Huntley and Dr Harold Shipman, that the cost of looking after them [100K plus a year]might be better spent on a more worthy cause such as the NHS or education.
The answer was “We do not have Capital Punishment as we live in a civilized society”
I pointed out the fact that we do actually operate a Capital Punishment system in this country which is probably active as we speak and on our doorstep. In this system there is no trial, or safeguard to discover whether the targets are acting under duress, or threats to their family.

I refer of course to the killing of people by the use of drones by personel sitting behind a computer at Waddington or other uk air bases.
The fact that people seem to be comfortable with that and not comfortable taking out people like Huntley is curious to me.

You can even witness the executions on youtube

I broadly agree with you.

"Civilised society" seems to be full of people actively putting down the ordinary average man whilst enabling and even actively importing perpatrators.

My tack has changed from wanting revenge on the perpetrators to focusing on those advocating & facilitating perpatrators.

 

[wanton dwarf]

I have often thought that last paragraph myself and it does seem obvious.
Or maybe, to reduce costs, some kind of "chain gang" could work for murderes?

I don't quite understand why @Danllan brings up his own kids?
If heaven forbid something like this happened to one of my three, killing the killer isn't going to bring them back and wanting to see them killed sort of smacks of wanting revenge? Kind of bringing you down to their level.

Killing an innocent as apposed to a murderer.

That is not revenge that's public service.

 

[Billhook]

I tried to persuade someone who was in a senior position looking after murderers such as Huntley and Dr Harold Shipman, that the cost of looking after them [100K plus a year]might be better spent on a more worthy cause such as the NHS or education.
The answer was “We do not have Capital Punishment as we live in a civilized society”
I pointed out the fact that we do actually operate a Capital Punishment system in this country which is probably active as we speak and on our doorstep. In this system there is no trial, or safeguard to discover whether the targets are acting under duress, or threats to their family.

I refer of course to the killing of people by the use of drones by personel sitting behind a computer at Waddington or other uk air bases.
The fact that people seem to be comfortable with that and not comfortable taking out people like Huntley is curious to me.

You can even witness the executions on youtube

Having read most of the comments here, with most feeling that they are against capital punishment, I am even more curious that there has been no outrage about the executions carried out without trial by drones.
One of the factors that a poor young army lad has to contend with is the problem of whether the enemy is actively trying to shoot him. If he has just shot your colleague and then puts his gun down as I understand it you are not allowed to shoot him under the new rules of engagement. In the same way a sniper is not allowed to take out an enemy if he is having a s##t as he is not an immediate threat.
Are we officially at war with Isis? Royal assent required I believe Danilan??? If we are not officially at war how does that change the issue?

So ,Ashtree, Pond Digger, Danilan, Static, Muck Spreader and Czechmate, how do you feel about the drone form of Capital Punishment taking place from the uk?

This clip is a view from the US

 

[Danllan]

Having read most of the comments here, with most feeling that they are against capital punishment, I am even more curious that there has been no outrage about the executions carried out without trial by drones.
One of the factors that a poor young army lad has to contend with is the problem of whether the enemy is actively trying to shoot him. If he has just shot your colleague and then puts his gun down as I understand it you are not allowed to shoot him under the new rules of engagement. In the same way a sniper is not allowed to take out an enemy if he is having a s##t as he is not an immediate threat.
Are we officially at war with Isis? Royal assent required I believe Danilan??? If we are not officially at war how does that change the issue?

So ,Ashtree, Pond Digger, Danilan, Static, Muck Spreader and Czechmate, how do you feel about the drone form of Capital Punishment taking place from the uk?

This clip is a view from the US

I've been out of the Army for over twenty years now and I have no professional experience in this field, only having had to study it. However, my understanding is that the UK hasn't 'declared war' - archaic as it sounds - since WW2 despite having certainly been involved in many since then. It is a Royal prerogative, so it is an act that the Queen would take rather than assenting to another doing it, but the Government of the day has, de facto, the power, right and ability to commit our forces to take action. This could be at the level of the whole army, or an individual sniper / drone pilot.

The justification for killing a group or individual is that a real threat is presented to the UK, its people and its interests. There has been recent speculation about the necessity for the threat to be 'imminent', the Attorney General has not publicised his current advice to the Government, a quick search shows that the matter is in Court to decide about publication / greater public clarification of the advice.

If an individual posing a definite threat can be killed without danger to innocent parties, the fact he is defecating while in the cross-hairs would seem to be irrelevant since he could, after all, still pick up the rifle / remote control and kill while he is defecating or immediately afterwards.

Rules of Engagement are drafted by people with no exposure to risk, and whose children very probably also have no exposure to danger; yet they are the law under which our forces must operate. Fortunately, our law is flexible enough to allow for this and for the real world of conflict.

I have no problem with the remote killing of our enemies, and think that the more efficiently we can destroy them with reduced risk to others and the less danger we expose our own people to, the better.

 

[Pond digger]

Having read most of the comments here, with most feeling that they are against capital punishment, I am even more curious that there has been no outrage about the executions carried out without trial by drones.
One of the factors that a poor young army lad has to contend with is the problem of whether the enemy is actively trying to shoot him. If he has just shot your colleague and then puts his gun down as I understand it you are not allowed to shoot him under the new rules of engagement. In the same way a sniper is not allowed to take out an enemy if he is having a s##t as he is not an immediate threat.
Are we officially at war with Isis? Royal assent required I believe Danilan??? If we are not officially at war how does that change the issue?

So ,Ashtree, Pond Digger, Danilan, Static, Muck Spreader and Czechmate, how do you feel about the drone form of Capital Punishment taking place from the uk?

This clip is a view from the US

Not sure the two issues are comparable, and I’m not sure one declares war on non national entities. However, many nations have, in fact, an ongoing war with terrorism.

 

[Billhook]

I have no problem with drones taking out people who are planting roadside IEDs. I do have a problem with them taking out vehicles or a building without really knowing the occupants ,. But I find it much easier to give a lethal injection to the likes of Shipman or Huntley or the killers of Lee Rigby, not for revenge, more to prevent them from at some point convincing the authorities that they are ok before they do the same thing again. The massive cost saving would be a welcome addition which could go to the victims families.
The main issue is that we seem to accept capital punishment of these people by drones, some of whom are UK citizens, without any form of trial and yet we tear ourselves apart about deciding on the death penalty at home, even for someone caught killing on video who admits their guilt.

 

[franklin]

You are clearly a fellow of sound undemocratic principal . Parliament is not sovereign, the people are; right or wrong, Parliament can't be allowed to ride roughshod over the will of the people, that is just too dangerous a path to go down.

Despite 14 years compulsory, free education, the public never fail to demonstrate how pig-sh!t ignorant they are.

Look back at the history of suffrage in the UK. Were we a democracy while there was a property criteria? Were we a democracy while women could not vote? Were we a democracy before the age of enfranchisement was lowered to 18? Are we a democracy now? This is all academic. Democracy is a poor system of government. If you let the Great Stupid make too many decisions then we may as well forget all MPs and just work on civil servants working on the basis of online surveys and some kind of App the unwashed can consider while sat waiting for Eastenders to come on the TV, shovelling in their McDonalds nuggets with their badly tattooed hands.

The proletariat require a vanguard. Not overly tricky or radical. They need telling what is good for them.

 

[rob1]

Despite 14 years compulsory, free education, the public never fail to demonstrate how pig-sh!t ignorant they are.

Look back at the history of suffrage in the UK. Were we a democracy while there was a property criteria? Were we a democracy while women could not vote? Were we a democracy before the age of enfranchisement was lowered to 18? Are we a democracy now? This is all academic. Democracy is a poor system of government. If you let the Great Stupid make too many decisions then we may as well forget all MPs and just work on civil servants working on the basis of online surveys and some kind of App the unwashed can consider while sat waiting for Eastenders to come on the TV, shovelling in their McDonalds nuggets with their badly tattooed hands.

The proletariat require a vanguard. Not overly tricky or radical. They need telling what is good for them.

the trouble is who decides whats good for them ?

 

[czechmate]

the trouble is who decides whats good for them ?

Someone who knows best

 

[rob1]

Someone who knows best

Thats me then

 

[Danllan]

...The proletariat require a vanguard. Not overly tricky or radical. They need telling what is good for them.

That is how it always begins... .

 

[Billhook]

Nanny knows best

 

[czechmate]

Nanny knows best

Certainly happy to be taking my chance with John Claude rather than clown Farage

 

[Billhook]

Certainly happy to be taking my chance with John Claude rather than clown Farage

Well I hope that you enjoy your chance. Rather you than me looking at this

 

[czechmate]

Well I hope that you enjoy your chance. Rather you than me looking at this

Thank you.

 

[Pond digger]

Thank you.

Id of slapped him back; HARDER!

 

[rob1]

Well I hope that you enjoy your chance. Rather you than me looking at this

I hope he is going to resign after all that inapropriate touching

 

[Pasty]

Perhaps if a person is found guilty beyond any doubt of such a crime it should be up to the victim's family to decide the punishment? Although I suppose that could haunt them for the rest of their lives so that is not really fair either.

No, I think we shouldn't go back to that and if it cost's us a lot to keep prisoners, maybe that's just the cost of a decent society. Let them run free or pay to keep them indoors. They exist whatever.

 

[czechmate]

Perhaps if a person is found guilty beyond any doubt of such a crime it should be up to the victim's family to decide the punishment? Although I suppose that could haunt them for the rest of their lives so that is not really fair either.

No, I think we shouldn't go back to that and if it cost's us a lot to keep prisoners, maybe that's just the cost of a decent society. Let them run free or pay to keep them indoors. They exist whatever.

There's a pretty recent Arnie film we watched this week about revenge. A traffic controllers mistake led to a plane collision. It did make me think about this revenge killing thing

 

[jendan]

There's a pretty recent Arnie film we watched this week about revenge. A traffic controllers mistake led to a plane collision. It did make me think about this revenge killing thing

If you have seen the film "Seven",its all in there.Will probably not be shown on TV now with Kevin Spacey in it.But it is a very clever if not a rather nasty film,and makes you think.Brad Pitt succumbs at the end,probably what all of us would do,but in doing so gives the killer what he wants."If you shoot him,he has won" says Morgan Freeman at the end.That is what Brady wanted,but did not get.