Capital Sentences...

[Danllan]

How many of you have - knowingly - met and spoken with murderers? I have had the chance with some and, with one exception*, what they really wanted to do was carry on with their life; a capital sentence would not mean they 'win'. The morals seen in Hollywood films really don't extrapolate to real life very often, because they are films...

*The exception was a Libyan who was obviously barking and asked to be extradited to an Islamic country so he could be executed, he killed himself after being told that would not happen.

 

[jendan]

How many of you have - knowingly - met and spoken with murderers? I have had the chance with some and, with one exception*, what they really wanted to do was carry on with their life; a capital sentence would not mean they 'win'. The morals seen in Hollywood films really don't extrapolate to real life very often, because they are films...

*The exception was a Libyan who was obviously barking and asked to be extradited to an Islamic country so he could be executed, he killed himself after being told that would not happen.

Brady was not in a Hollywood film,nor other really bad serial killers in this country.Presumably these are the ones you are talking about in your opening post.

 

[Danllan]

Those I initially referred to are self-explanatory, being where there is 100% certainty of guilt and no mitigating circ's at all.

But, it seems to me that you are framing your reasoning solely to suit your preferred option regarding sentencing: 1) you dislike capital punishment; 2) some murders claim to want to be executed; 3) we'll punish these few by not handing down a capital sentence, that'll teach them... No, that won't wash; what if they say they really want to spend years in prison, deny them that and send them to Skegness? Come off it.

If removing these individuals from society and prisons means we help a few of them in their own plans for dying, so be it. Ditto jihadis with regard to drone strikes, if they want to die for their superstitions let's help them do so before they harm anyone else.

 

[czechmate]

Those I initially referred to are self-explanatory, being where there is 100% certainty of guilt and no mitigating circ's at all.

But, it seems to me that you are framing your reasoning solely to suit your preferred option regarding sentencing: 1) you dislike capital punishment; 2) some murders claim to want to be executed; 3) we'll punish these few by not handing down a capital sentence, that'll teach them... No, that won't wash; what if they say they really want to spend years in prison, deny them that and send them to Skegness? Come off it.

If removing these individuals from society and prisons means we help a few of them in their own plans for dying, so be it. Ditto jihadis with regard to drone strikes, if they want to die for their superstitions let's help them do so before they harm anyone else.

Some might say that being sent to Skegness is the worst punishment of all

 

[Danllan]

Some might say that being sent to Skegness is the worst punishment of all

You haven't been to Slough then?

 

[caveman]

Stick them all on an island in the middle of nowhere and give them a drop of of grub every now and then and let them get on with it.
Maybe one day they might even become a great civilised nation.
Oh. Wait..........

 

[jendan]

Those I initially referred to are self-explanatory, being where there is 100% certainty of guilt and no mitigating circ's at all.

But, it seems to me that you are framing your reasoning solely to suit your preferred option regarding sentencing: 1) you dislike capital punishment; 2) some murders claim to want to be executed; 3) we'll punish these few by not handing down a capital sentence, that'll teach them... No, that won't wash; what if they say they really want to spend years in prison, deny them that and send them to Skegness? Come off it.

If removing these individuals from society and prisons means we help a few of them in their own plans for dying, so be it. Ditto jihadis with regard to drone strikes, if they want to die for their superstitions let's help them do so before they harm anyone else.

My post followed on from one specifically about revenge,or vengeance.

 

[Danllan]

My post followed on from one specifically about revenge,or vengeance.

Revenge, vengeance, retribution or call it what you will, no matter. It is to be punishment for a wrong done and, as I advocate it, only according to the rule of law.

If you really don't think it alright for either a nation to choose whether to have such a sentencing option, or for a Court to impose it, that's fair enough because we are entitled to our own opinions in a democracy.

But trying to damn it with the incorrect use of would-be emotive words - check their definitions - is no argument against it. So far we have been told that it is just wrong and takes us to the murderers' level; 'just wrong' is no argument and, as has been explained, we are not at the murderers' level if we apply the rule of law.

 

[jendan]

Revenge, vengeance, retribution or call it what you will, no matter. It is to be punishment for a wrong done and, as I advocate it, only according to the rule of law.

If you really don't think it alright for either a nation to choose whether to have such a sentencing option, or for a Court to impose it, that's fair enough because we are entitled to our own opinions in a democracy.

But trying to damn it with the incorrect use of would-be emotive words - check their definitions - is no argument against it. So far we have been told that it is just wrong and takes us to the murderers' level; 'just wrong' is no argument and, as has been explained, we are not at the murderers' level if we apply the rule of law.

Capital punishment comes up every so many years,and is debated thoroughly in the Commons and Lords,i think but am not sure on a free vote.We have not gone back to 1964 yet,so i will stick with what they decide for the time being.It is very easy to be "for it" in the heat of the moment for the most heinous of crimes;peadophile child murderers etc.What would your preferred method be;hanging,electric chair,or lethal injection?

 

[Danllan]

Capital punishment comes up every so many years,and is debated thoroughly in the Commons and Lords,i think but am not sure on a free vote.We have not gone back to 1964 yet,so i will stick with what they decide for the time being.It is very easy to be "for it" in the heat of the moment for the most heinous of crimes;peadophile child murderers etc.What would your preferred method be;hanging,electric chair,or lethal injection?

As explained earlier in the thread, we couldn't have a capital sentence while within the EU and subject to the ECHR, which we may still be following Brexit, the ECJ being the objectionable thing; the debates in Parliament were just talk to keep the usual suspects happy. Method? Hanging.

 

[jendan]

As explained earlier in the thread, we couldn't have a capital sentence while within the EU and subject to the ECHR, which we may still be following Brexit, the ECJ being the objectionable thing; the debates in Parliament were just talk to keep the usual suspects happy. Method? Hanging.

And hanging for light weight people,including women sub 7-8 stone?

 

[Danllan]

And hanging for light weight people,including women sub 7-8 stone?

I assume you have been googling weight drops; physics applies, the sums can be done. If it were law it would have to be applied to a murderous midget just as it would to a murderous rugby number 8.

You're attempting to ridicule the idea by citing 'extreme' examples. That won't work, this is about principal, and just as a nasty killing person who is 3' high could be sentenced, so could a nasty killing 99 year old. Size, in any way, would not allow for exceptions, nor would great age because the crime is the crime.

Youth could and should be an exclusionary factor; but then we get to the question of precise ages, which always throws up daft examples e.g. why is it fair that a child of nine years 364 days unable to be arrested and charged, but his friend a day older able to be? I think that there has to be allowance for youth, I will admit I am yet to reach a definite conclusion as to what age it should be.

 

[czechmate]

I assume you have been googling weight drops; physics applies, the sums can be done. If it were law it would have to be applied to a murderous midget just as it would to a murderous rugby number 8.

You're attempting to ridicule the idea by citing 'extreme' examples. That won't work, this is about principal, and just as a nasty killing person who is 3' high could be sentenced, so could a nasty killing 99 year old. Size, in an way, would not allow for exceptions, nor would great age because the crime is the crime.

Youth could and should be an exclusionary factor; but then we get to the question of precise ages, which always throws up daft examples e.g. why is it fair that a child of nine years 264 days unable to be arrested and charged, but his friend a day older able to be? I think that there has to be allowance for youth, I will admit I am yet to reach a definite conclusion as to what age it should be.

Well I would of hung (no actually I would of "stoned") the evil pair that killed Jamie Bulger but I guesse that was never going to happen.
To take the other extreme (your example) hang a 99 year old and there would be such an outcry that it would be the last.

 

[Pond digger]

I would have thought that execution by inhalation of CO2 or nitrogen would be the most humane. If you’re going to kill people, then it needs to be as humane as it can be.

 

[jendan]

I would have thought that execution by inhalation of CO2 or nitrogen would be the most humane. If you’re going to kill people, then it needs to be as humane as it can be.

Same idea as putting a plastic bag over your head to commit suicide.As the Oxygen decreases the CO2 and Nitrogen increases.Similar to laughing gas,you just go unconsious then die.Its meant to be the most painless way to do it.

 

[jendan]

I assume you have been googling weight drops; physics applies, the sums can be done. If it were law it would have to be applied to a murderous midget just as it would to a murderous rugby number 8.

You're attempting to ridicule the idea by citing 'extreme' examples. That won't work, this is about principal, and just as a nasty killing person who is 3' high could be sentenced, so could a nasty killing 99 year old. Size, in any way, would not allow for exceptions, nor would great age because the crime is the crime.

Youth could and should be an exclusionary factor; but then we get to the question of precise ages, which always throws up daft examples e.g. why is it fair that a child of nine years 364 days unable to be arrested and charged, but his friend a day older able to be? I think that there has to be allowance for youth, I will admit I am yet to reach a definite conclusion as to what age it should be.

Have not googled hanging methods etc,but i know that for very light weight people including children it just becomes a form of torture before death.They do not have the weight from the drop to break the neck,nor to asfixiate them quick enough.It can take 10 minutes or more for death to occur.It is chronicled in a concentration camp where a French Jewish boy was hanged by the Nazis for some minor deed.The inmates just looked on in silence as the boy writhed in agony for minutes before death and his body became limp.

 

[czechmate]

We watched an old seamans film "billy Budd" the last couple of days. At the end they hang him with no drop but a few blokes running along the deck with the rope over a pully. I thought that must be a terrible hanging :-(

 

[rob1]

surely lethal injection is the humane method.