Carbon Credits what value ?

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
my conclusion, it's very hit and miss, there needs to a reliable form of measurement, and a time scale set for a 'period'.
Industry, will just want a bit of paper, that say's they have offset their carbon, they wont be interested in the finer details, they have 'done' it, repercussions will be the landowners problem, us.
The chances of us getting ripped off, are quite high, especially if no standard measurement, we could do a deal, and the measurements we used, could be replaced by something, that didn't recognise them.
We know exactly what will happen, a new section of land agents, will pop up, perhaps, with a different colour trousers, that will make a lot of commission, from us, by complicating the paperwork, to the n'th degree.
The plus side, it just might be, that in the 'rush' to achieve sequestration targets, both guv, and the greens, will not be to onerous in their interpretations, both wanting to be seen to be doing 'something'.
Those new land agents, could actually be useful, in so much as, we will be dealing with big businesses, whose ethics, will be completely different to ours, in a bad way.
But it is a new 'thing', and it will be clearer as time progresses, until a reliable, recognised measurement is produced, it will be a buggers muddle.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
NFFN Member
my conclusion, it's very hit and miss, there needs to a reliable form of measurement, and a time scale set for a 'period'.
Industry, will just want a bit of paper, that say's they have offset their carbon, they wont be interested in the finer details, they have 'done' it, repercussions will be the landowners problem, us.
The chances of us getting ripped off, are quite high, especially if no standard measurement, we could do a deal, and the measurements we used, could be replaced by something, that didn't recognise them.
We know exactly what will happen, a new section of land agents, will pop up, perhaps, with a different colour trousers, that will make a lot of commission, from us, by complicating the paperwork, to the n'th degree.
The plus side, it just might be, that in the 'rush' to achieve sequestration targets, both guv, and the greens, will not be to onerous in their interpretations, both wanting to be seen to be doing 'something'.
Those new land agents, could actually be useful, in so much as, we will be dealing with big businesses, whose ethics, will be completely different to ours, in a bad way.
But it is a new 'thing', and it will be clearer as time progresses, until a reliable, recognised measurement is produced, it will be a buggers muddle.
Sums it up fairly well.

"Offsetting" is a total red herring imho. It's "the emperor's new clothes" as a government policy. It might, being generous here, reduce the rate of increase in atmospheric carbon a bit but does little if anything to reduce it which is what we need to achieve.

Meanwhile it allowed polluters to claim to be "green".

It will offer farmers a new income stream while it lasts though.
 

Still Farming

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Glamorgan Wales
Anyone use or know anything about these??

Screenshot_20210902-114712_Gallery.jpg
 

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
land agents in the SW have long list of cash rich cooperate client looking for large tracts of LFA land for carbon capture.
How far down the hills they are willing to come , I don’t know
 

sidjon

Member
Location
EXMOOR
land agents in the SW have long list of cash rich cooperate client looking for large tracts of LFA land for carbon capture.
How far down the hills they are willing to come , I don’t know
Farm we use to rent has just been sold for over £10k a acre (confirmed by local gossip, who does work on said farm🤔) ,which has been purchased for trees and shoots by city money, but non LFA just.
 

delilah

Member
It's a bad job all round, which will do nothing to assist either UK ag or the environment. There's only two ways I can think of in which it can be averted or at least minimized. Firstly, for farmings national representative bodies to condemn it for the bollox that it is, secondly for Defra to say you can't claim ELMS on land you are selling the carbon from. Given that the polar opposite is happening on both counts, it's a disaster in the making.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
It's a bad job all round, which will do nothing to assist either UK ag or the environment. There's only two ways I can think of in which it can be averted or at least minimized. Firstly, for farmings national representative bodies to condemn it for the bollox that it is, secondly for Defra to say you can't claim ELMS on land you are selling the carbon from. Given that the polar opposite is happening on both counts, it's a disaster in the making.
unfortunately, think you are correct, l cannot see the NFU standing up against it, probably support it, and until there is a 'measurement' that can be used as a template, the whole thing will end up as a right buggers muddle, the losers being the farmers themselves.
 

delilah

Member
unfortunately, think you are correct, l cannot see the NFU standing up against it, probably support it, and until there is a 'measurement' that can be used as a template, the whole thing will end up as a right buggers muddle, the losers being the farmers themselves.

Google 'carbon ponzi scheme', the third and probably most effective way in which it could be knocked on the head will be for a high profile farmer to end up in court.
 

Chris F

Staff Member
Media
Location
Hammerwich
This press release came across my desk today to promote regen dairy (same topic with respect to COP):

Global food companies partner to deliver roadmap for regenerative dairy

A number of global food companies, including Unilever, Barry Callebaut, Arla Foods, Ben & Jerry's and Woolworth South Africa, have partnered up with FAI Farms and Farmwel, to deliver a roadmap for regenerative dairy.

‘RE-DAIRY’ is a 18 month-long project starting in October and aims to engage dairy farmers and businesses around a practical vision for a productive and profitable global dairy sector that also restores its relationship with nature.

Øistein Thorsen, chief executive of FAI Farms, said: “We face two great crises in nature: global warming and biodiversity loss. We must urgently address agriculture’s impact, but we also have to produce diverse and nutritious food to nourish a growing global population. For global dairy to make the transition we need global collaboration. That is why we invite other partners to join and take a seat at the table.”

The collaboration will define what regenerative dairy looks like from the bottom up. RE-DAIRY's vision is to put a spotlight on practices that are having regenerative outcomes on dairy farms around the world today. To help ensure mainstream adoption and impact, the project will investigate practical language and effective framing for farmer focused communication.

Working with farmer groups and other stakeholders, a roadmap of critical steps and actions will be created to establish the supply chain conditions for successful transition to regenerative dairy.

RE-DAIRY begins as all nations make their COP26 pledges about the speed with which their societies and economies must decarbonise.

“Agricultural land use accounts for 24% of carbon emissions, but not all of these emissions are from fossil fuels. While emissions from ruminants are high, the warming impact of these emissions is relatively stable. This means that the best way to mitigate dairy’s global warming impact is to take a whole-systems approach and reintegrate farming practices with nature,” said Mr Thorsen.

“By reducing the industry’s reliance on fossil fuels, and by focusing on soil health, biodiversity, carbon sequestration and water management, the dairy sector will be able to produce high quality nutrition and maintain profitability.”

ffinlo Costain, chief executive of Farmwel, said: “Our future nutritional security depends on the capacity of global brands to plan and deliver new, profitable and successful models of food production. This means trusting and empowering farmers to protect their communities and rebalance their farms so that they can work successfully in partnership with nature.”

RE-DAIRY starts in the autumn, and there is still an opportunity for other brands to take part.
 

onesiedale

Member
Location
Derbyshire
Screenshot_20211015-173242.png

^^
According to DairyUK a litre of milk is 1.25kg of carbon.
Does this mean for MY farm to be carbon neutral I could buy carbon credits? Currently the price is around £50/tonne. This is equivalent to 6ppl.
Great. Of course I could account for it on my own grassland .... Unless of course I've already committed my carbon to somebody else.
So where does the 6ppl come from to make our industry carbon neutral.?
... asking for a friend.😉
 

Still Farming

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Glamorgan Wales
View attachment 991487
^^
According to DairyUK a litre of milk is 1.25kg of carbon.
Does this mean for MY farm to be carbon neutral I could buy carbon credits? Currently the price is around £50/tonne. This is equivalent to 6ppl.
Great. Of course I could account for it on my own grassland .... Unless of course I've already committed my carbon to somebody else.
So where does the 6ppl come from to make our industry carbon neutral.?
... asking for a friend.😉
And Plant a field of trees and Bob's your uncle!
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
View attachment 991487
^^
According to DairyUK a litre of milk is 1.25kg of carbon.
Does this mean for MY farm to be carbon neutral I could buy carbon credits? Currently the price is around £50/tonne. This is equivalent to 6ppl.
Great. Of course I could account for it on my own grassland .... Unless of course I've already committed my carbon to somebody else.
So where does the 6ppl come from to make our industry carbon neutral.?
... asking for a friend.😉
1,000,000 x 6p = a very sum, but l bet the hoops needed to jump through, mean the actual money received is somewhat less.
It's saying a litre =1.25, but the vocal zealots, would never believe it, their sites are firmly set on removing farting cows, one day, they might actually realise, they cannot live, without us.
What is does show, is farmers need to be very careful, dotting the i's and crossing the tees, in any contracts drawn up, big industry does not behave like most of us. Having said that, l would be perfectly happy, jumping through lots of hoops, to get a big slice of £60,000.
 

onesiedale

Member
Location
Derbyshire
1,000,000 x 6p = a very sum, but l bet the hoops needed to jump through, mean the actual money received is somewhat less.
It's saying a litre =1.25, but the vocal zealots, would never believe it, their sites are firmly set on removing farting cows, one day, they might actually realise, they cannot live, without us.
What is does show, is farmers need to be very careful, dotting the i's and crossing the tees, in any contracts drawn up, big industry does not behave like most of us. Having said that, l would be perfectly happy, jumping through lots of hoops, to get a big slice of £60,000.
Great, but that £60k can only be found by selling your milk for 6ppl more....and you're still no better off because that's the value of your carbon sink even if you don't sell the milk!
Put simply, your CoP will rise by 6p automatically
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
Great, but that £60k can only be found by selling your milk for 6ppl more....and you're still no better off because that's the value of your carbon sink even if you don't sell the milk!
Put simply, your CoP will rise by 6p automatically
might make the cows disappear !
as with most 'schemes' in ag, the results are never quite the same as the promise, simply to many parasites that wish to live off our backs.
But that is fine to the gen public, to them, we are feather bedded, rolling in free money, and only drive around in chelsea tractors !
 
If a carbon production tax was introduced it would invariably put a floor in the carbon credit market and put those that manage land in a very strong position until tech finds a way of dealing with co2 emissions more efficiently/ cheaper..

I have invested heavily in dairy recently but if an opportunity arrives that means I can make more money from carbon farming I will take it very seriously...Indeed as an organic dairy farmer it should be part of my everyday job..!
 

CHAP Webinar - Innovative tools to overcome the challenges of Regen Ag

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Applying principles of regen ag can incur a range of on-farm challenges. Learn how innovative tools & machinery can help with these hurdles.

This event will be held online from 1pm to 2pm on Thursday 2nd December 2021 so please block it out in your diary.

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