Carbon emissions ??

tw15

Member
Location
DORSET
Do you think as time goes on each farm business will have to account for its carbon emissions in the form of tractor and equipment emissions as well as livestock and also that what is released by cultivations etc . At the moment looking at GENTLE FARMING'S system to start to get my head around the whole idea.
Will it be also a case of older kit that is not as good at keeping emissions down will get penalised or the fact that less carbon is used in less need to replace things compared to what comes out of the exhausts . Been in dd now for getting on 10 years and 95% of land has a either cover crops or stubble turnips for sheep or is winter sown cash crops i.e. ww beans etc .
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
NFFN Member
Do you think as time goes on each farm business will have to account for its carbon emissions in the form of tractor and equipment emissions as well as livestock and also that what is released by cultivations etc . At the moment looking at GENTLE FARMING'S system to start to get my head around the whole idea.
Will it be also a case of older kit that is not as good at keeping emissions down will get penalised or the fact that less carbon is used in less need to replace things compared to what comes out of the exhausts . Been in dd now for getting on 10 years and 95% of land has a either cover crops or stubble turnips for sheep or is winter sown cash crops i.e. ww beans etc .
The emissions from fertiliser, livestock, cultivations and overall fuel use in farming dwarf any differences in efficiency between machines. It'll be some time before these become significant imho.
 

Bald Rick

Moderator
Livestock Farmer
Location
Anglesey
Almost certainly a carbon audit will become a requirement of Red Tractor.

Bet it’s already on their “To Do” list

We have already been asked to do one (voluntarily atm) by our dairy.
 

Top Tip.

Member
Location
highland
Do you think as time goes on each farm business will have to account for its carbon emissions in the form of tractor and equipment emissions as well as livestock and also that what is released by cultivations etc . At the moment looking at GENTLE FARMING'S system to start to get my head around the whole idea.
Will it be also a case of older kit that is not as good at keeping emissions down will get penalised or the fact that less carbon is used in less need to replace things compared to what comes out of the exhausts . Been in dd now for getting on 10 years and 95% of land has a either cover crops or stubble turnips for sheep or is winter sown cash crops i.e. ww beans etc .
I think we have to move on from being fixated with our emissions and concentrate on the amount we are sequestrating and improve on that .
 

Top Tip.

Member
Location
highland
Almost certainly a carbon audit will become a requirement of Red Tractor.

Bet it’s already on their “To Do” list

We have already been asked to do one (voluntarily atm) by our dairy.
Nothing to be scared of in a carbon audit,I’ve done three of them now and the one thing I can say is that they are only as good as the figures that are inputed.🤦‍♂️
 

Bald Rick

Moderator
Livestock Farmer
Location
Anglesey
Nothing to be scared of in a carbon audit,I’ve done three of them now and the one thing I can say is that they are only as good as the figures that are inputed.🤦‍♂️

Not scared at all. In fact, I was mildly surprised at how it turned out on a per litre of milk basis.

But, as you say, it depends how honestly you input figures.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
NFFN Member
Nothing to be scared of in a carbon audit,I’ve done three of them now and the one thing I can say is that they are only as good as the figures that are inputed.🤦‍♂️
This is the "elephant in the room" at the moment. The science is far from settled around how to accurately, fairly and consistently account for climate emissions impact. That leaves lots of room for companies to distort it to their own benefit.

Then there's the fact that everyone is "estimating" emmissions when the real target is to limit warming. It should be warming impact we are comparing (which is a critical distinction where methane is concerned).
 

GeorgeK

Member
Location
Leicestershire
You raise an interesting point about old tractors. The government only want a good headline or soundbite, not actual results so yes I can see old tractors being an easy target. They seem happy to ignore emissions from the manufacture of new vehicles and even economy figures, so long as the stuff coming out the tailpipe has less particulates and NOX in laboratory tests that don't reflect real world usage it doesn't seem to matter what the overall impact is.
 

Grandad Pig

Member
Location
Essex
I read somewhere, years ago, that more co2 is released mining ore, smelting steel, making the many components and moving those parts all over the planet, than an average car will release from its exhaust in its working life of 12 to 15 years.

It may be better to keep those old cars, tractors and implements working as long as possible in CO2 emissions terms at least.

not sure if true but an interesting idea
 

GeorgeK

Member
Location
Leicestershire
I read somewhere, years ago, that more co2 is released mining ore, smelting steel, making the many components and moving those parts all over the planet, than an average car will release from its exhaust in its working life of 12 to 15 years.

It may be better to keep those old cars, tractors and implements working as long as possible in CO2 emissions terms at least.

not sure if true but an interesting idea
That won't keep the economy going though, it won't keep people submissive and hooked on the simple goal of acquiring more stuff. If the government works it out the same way it does with cars it will be better to have a new quadtrac on a haybob than a MF135 because the quadtrac has adblue.
 
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holwellcourtfarm

Member
NFFN Member
That won't keep the economy going though, it won't keep people submissive and hooked on the simple goal of acquiring more stuff. The way the government works it out it's better to have a new quadtrac on a haybob than a MF135 because the quadtrac has adblue.
The same reason that the Covid restrictions have been revoked despite rising cases and that the Olympics are going ahead.

"Economics" trumps all other concerns, politically.
 
Location
southwest
I read somewhere, years ago, that more co2 is released mining ore, smelting steel, making the many components and moving those parts all over the planet, than an average car will release from its exhaust in its working life of 12 to 15 years.

It may be better to keep those old cars, tractors and implements working as long as possible in CO2 emissions terms at least.

not sure if true but an interesting idea

That's the point about Carbon Audits--how far do you drill down? Is a new fuel efficient tractor better than a twenty year old "classic" does a lower replacement rate for dairy cows get you more brownie points as it uses less land? What about a fully housed herd that produces twice as much milk per acre (with a lot more "imported" feed) versus a low intensity OAD grazing herd? Do you go as far as looking at where the farm staff live, do they walk to work or do they have to drive?
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Location
Cumbria
This is the "elephant in the room" at the moment. The science is far from settled around how to accurately, fairly and consistently account for climate emissions impact. That leaves lots of room for companies to distort it to their own benefit.

Then there's the fact that everyone is "estimating" emmissions when the real target is to limit warming. It should be warming impact we are comparing (which is a critical distinction where methane is concerned).
Yup, and there's the real problem. The "science" element has been dumbed down to such an extent that the message presented to the public worldwide has become wholly warped to the point of being almost wrong-headed. I hesitate to even use the word science in this regard as it seems more like guesswork from where I'm standing. As you say, warming effect is what matters not effing "emissions", but emissions is all we hear about.
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Location
Cumbria
That's the point about Carbon Audits--how far do you drill down? Is a new fuel efficient tractor better than a twenty year old "classic" does a lower replacement rate for dairy cows get you more brownie points as it uses less land? What about a fully housed herd that produces twice as much milk per acre (with a lot more "imported" feed) versus a low intensity OAD grazing herd? Do you go as far as looking at where the farm staff live, do they walk to work or do they have to drive?
Indeed, it's all smoke and mirrors. What are the calculations going on within the spreadsheet that you can't see? And which spreadsheet do you use? Try several and pick the one that leaves the best result, job done. That's what everyone else does.
 

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Man fined £300 for bonfire-related waste offences

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Written by William Kellett from Agriland

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A man has pleaded guilty at Newtownards Magistrates’ Court to waste offences relating to a bonfire next to the electrical sub-station on the Circular Road in Newtownards, Co. Down.

Gareth Gill (51) of Abbot’s Walk, Newtownards pleaded guilty to two charges under the Waste and Contaminated Land (Northern Ireland) Order 1997, for which he was fined £150 each and ordered to pay a £15 offender’s levy

On June 25, 2018, PSNI officers went to Gill’s yard, where they found a large amount of waste consisting of scrap wood, pallets, carpet and underlay.

Discussion with Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA) officers confirmed the site...
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