Case 885 Brakes

[blake999]

Hi
The problem I have is there is little to no grip wheels when at the wheels, long pedal but solid, bleeds well, thought the discs could be glazed, replaced discs, when I got the tractor the oil was badly contaminated with water (milky) but had some sort of brake at least it would stop you, since cleaning the system out the brakes have got worse the cleaner the oil is getting because I have been trying different oils to try and improve the grip, I replaced the discs with genuine Case parts, cant think of anything else to do, Its as simple a system you can have, what am I missing?

 

[Zebbedee]

Brakes when correctly bled with good pedal on these tractors are very good should easily lock the wheels in use.i would get someone to hold pressure on the brake pedal whilst you open bleed nipple and pedal should drop to floor quickly, if not there is some sort of obstruction in brake pipes not allowing pressure to brake discs. That's all I can think of discs will not glaze and if they are bled and not losing pressure overnight etc they should work

 

[Zebbedee]

Hang on a minute is it a case ih or a david brown variant? If it's a brown I have no idea whatsoever

 

[blake999]

It's a Case, same transmission as a IH 674. The brakes bleed well and if you apply pressure and open a bleed screw the pedal rapidly hits the floor, the pedal never loses pressure over night I'm stumped

 

[Mursal]

Both sides or just one?

 

[agrimax]

It'll actually be a Case IH then.(The DB Case 885 had dry brake shoes) The pedals shouldn't be particularly long,but as long as they aren't going right to the floor,your bleeding shouldn't be too bad. However,have you bled them by fitting a piece of clear tube over the bleed nipples,and the engine running ?When there is no air visible in the tubes,nip up the bleeders and that should be them bled. Or are you just pumping up the pedals and opening the bleeders to expel air.Really needs to be done the other way with the engine running. What oil are you now using? Should be UTTO or Hytran (which is the same thing).

 

[Mursal]

If they are dry brakes, it sounds like oil on the linings
Gives the impression, you're pushing against nothing .........

 

[agrimax]

But they're wet discs.............

 

[essexpete]

Agrimax should the op also clamp the return pipe on the pot on the bulkhead?
It does sound like they are bled TBH and even with a little air in the system pumping the brakes would normally make them work.

 

[agrimax]

By rights,yes the return should be clamped, but I also think the OP has them bled enough to work too. Still curious as to what oil is being used. Hope it's not ordinary hydraulic oil!

 

[blake999]

I have bled the system correctly with clear tubes, you cant clamp the return tube because its the type that has a reservoir inline so there is always a head of oil, I've not used Hytran as it's difficult to get and many claims that what's on offer is it's just the same as Hytran however I have tried couple of well known tractor transmission oil, I even tried ATF transmission oil as a desperate attempt to get the brakes to grip. The thing that gets me is the brakes were a lot better (not perfect) with the badly contaminated oil, tempted to water back in LOL.

 

[essexpete]

Is it possible that one of the oils has an additive that promotes easy slipping rather than anti squawk?? I have used a Q8 UTTO in our 895 without problem for several years (same oil in our Ford 8340 as well).

I wonder if Gapples or Richard W have come across this problem before?

 

[milkloss]

I have bled the system correctly with clear tubes, you cant clamp the return tube because its the type that has a reservoir inline so there is always a head of oil, I've not used Hytran as it's difficult to get and many claims that what's on offer is it's just the same as Hytran however I have tried couple of well known tractor transmission oil, I even tried ATF transmission oil as a desperate attempt to get the brakes to grip. The thing that gets me is the brakes were a lot better (not perfect) with the badly contaminated oil, tempted to water back in LOL.

Watch that little header tank with three or four pipes in the bottom. The metal pipes can slip in the plastic either putting them above the level or for the return below the level and drain it.

 

[Mursal]

But they're wet discs.............

Sorry I misread your last post
Lost interest when he didn't answer, whether it was affecting one or both sides!!

 

[Gapples]

When you fitted the new disc's did you soak the friction disc for half a day approximately before fitting ?
If fitted dry the first time you used them would tear the paper off.
You actually brake using the oil film not the friction material.
Obviously designed to use hytran oil but will work fine with a multi use oil, not ATF !

 

[Zebbedee]

I have bled the system correctly with clear tubes, you cant clamp the return tube because its the type that has a reservoir inline so there is always a head of oil, I've not used Hytran as it's difficult to get and many claims that what's on offer is it's just the same as Hytran however I have tried couple of well known tractor transmission oil, I even tried ATF transmission oil as a desperate attempt to get the brakes to grip. The thing that gets me is the brakes were a lot better (not perfect) with the badly contaminated oil, tempted to water back in LOL.

Yea the atf would not be the best for the job!!! But still think it would have brakes? As said the stack pipes in the plastic header tank can slip but usually causing air issues, you can still nip the return pipe to help bleeding I certainly used too anyway. If it is bled through and got a pedal then brakes should work? Never seen one that doesn't,t, and if pedal drops as soon as bleed screw is opened it shows pressure is getting to rear housing and not much to cause a blockage between there and the brake piston. If you are sure of all the above then my next step would be remove the rear trumpets and then push brake pedals and the pistons should move and probably come out on second pump. There may be a blockage in the oil ways but I personally have never seen it but never say never as it is certainly a strange one

 

[blake999]

Sorry about the late reply, I can only get to the laptop in the evenings, had another look at this today I made up a test gauge and fitted into the pipe that goes into the brake housing, with normal brake pressure I get 400psi and when I stand on them with all I have I get 1000psi tested both sides, both the same, bleed system again the proper and road tested. The brake is shocking but noticed that it's at it's worse when the brakes are latched together individually they are a lot better but dangerous when you hit the pedals in the middle but NOT latched they would appear to be better and can actually skid the wheels with max pressure, god only knows what they would be like with a trailer on.
Yes I did soak the discs overnight in transmission oil.
I also replaced all piston seals when I was in there just to make sure the pistons were free as there has been water contamination in this transmission

 

[milkloss]

Sorry about the late reply, I can only get to the laptop in the evenings, had another look at this today I made up a test gauge and fitted into the pipe that goes into the brake housing, with normal brake pressure I get 400psi and when I stand on them with all I have I get 1000psi tested both sides, both the same, bleed system again the proper and road tested. The brake is shocking but noticed that it's at it's worse when the brakes are latched together individually they are a lot better but dangerous when you hit the pedals in the middle but NOT latched they would appear to be better and can actually skid the wheels with max pressure, god only knows what they would be like with a trailer on.
Yes I did soak the discs overnight in transmission oil.
I also replaced all piston seals when I was in there just to make sure the pistons were free as there has been water contamination in this transmission

Won't you be getting double pressure individually as compared to together? Well not quite but you know what I mean.

 

[blake999]

Don't think so as they are separate master cylinder's when latched they become as one through the balance pipe that passes between the two cylinders

 

[wuddy]

Has the tractor got a trailer brake valve? If so has it been bled?