catch crop / over winter green cover

[andybk]

Landlord putting in rape , stubble turnip , crimson clover , for winter cover crop ,sheep will clear when required anything to add ,to bulk it out a bit , can you add some wheat or will that cause agronomy issues ? (followed by spring barley )

 

[Northern territory]

Landlord putting in rape , stubble turnip , crimson clover , for winter cover crop ,sheep will clear when required anything to add ,to bulk it out a bit , can you add some wheat or will that cause agronomy issues ? (followed by spring barley )

Is that an SFI option and when are you allowed to graze it ?

 

[redsloe]

I very often add a few W oats if you have them in the shed. I know the arable boys say they cause allopathy but if your going to graze it....

 

[andybk]

Is that an SFI option and when are you allowed to graze it ?

you can graze but not destroy it as high levels of grazing are needed to destroy (kill) it and can cause compaction

quote:

Use grazing to prepare for other destruction methods​

You can graze your cover crop, but do not use grazing to kill a cover crop. The high levels of grazing needed to kill the plants will cause soil compaction, leaching of nutrients and runoff. Grazing also reduces the amount of organic matter that the cover crop adds to the soil.

Grazing can prepare the cover crop for other destruction methods and help to control weeds, like black-grass.

Before you graze livestock, make sure the cover crops you use are not poisonous to livestock

Use cover crops or green manure – Farming

Updates from Defra's Farming and Countryside Programme

defrafarming.blog.gov.uk

 

[AngusLad]

you can graze but not destroy it as high levels of grazing are needed to destroy (kill) it and can cause compaction

quote:

Use grazing to prepare for other destruction methods​

You can graze your cover crop, but do not use grazing to kill a cover crop. The high levels of grazing needed to kill the plants will cause soil compaction, leaching of nutrients and runoff. Grazing also reduces the amount of organic matter that the cover crop adds to the soil.

Grazing can prepare the cover crop for other destruction methods and help to control weeds, like black-grass.

Before you graze livestock, make sure the cover crops you use are not poisonous to livestock

Use cover crops or green manure – Farming

Updates from Defra's Farming and Countryside Programme

defrafarming.blog.gov.uk

Forgive my ignorance as I'm just a yokel from up in the hills but I have never understood this leaving fodder behind to go into the soil (I'm more thinking long grass grazing type jobs where they "graze a third, leave a third and trample a third" surely cow or sheep sh!t has the same level of organic matter as the fodder that they have grazed? i.e. why not graze down hard as normal and return organic matter through the dung?

Likewise when arable boys want sheep on grazing winter crops to improve organic matter, the sheep aren't importing any organic matter? Just grazing what's there and returning it to the soil?

Am I missing something?

 

[Northern territory]

you can graze but not destroy it as high levels of grazing are needed to destroy (kill) it and can cause compaction

quote:

Use grazing to prepare for other destruction methods​

You can graze your cover crop, but do not use grazing to kill a cover crop. The high levels of grazing needed to kill the plants will cause soil compaction, leaching of nutrients and runoff. Grazing also reduces the amount of organic matter that the cover crop adds to the soil.

Grazing can prepare the cover crop for other destruction methods and help to control weeds, like black-grass.

Before you graze livestock, make sure the cover crops you use are not poisonous to livestock

Use cover crops or green manure – Farming

Updates from Defra's Farming and Countryside Programme

defrafarming.blog.gov.uk

No use to me. In a wet winter you’re going to need some big fields with not much stock

 

[andybk]

Forgive my ignorance as I'm just a yokel from up in the hills but I have never understood this leaving fodder behind to go into the soil (I'm more thinking long grass grazing type jobs where they "graze a third, leave a third and trample a third" surely cow or sheep sh!t has the same level of organic matter as the fodder that they have grazed? i.e. why not graze down hard as normal and return organic matter through the dung?

Likewise when arable boys want sheep on grazing winter crops to improve organic matter, the sheep aren't importing any organic matter? Just grazing what's there and returning it to the soil?

Am I missing something?

its the compaction they dont like , think of those lambs on stubble turnip / swede somme looking fields in winter , huge rain storm top soil ends up in the river , by leaving something there it keeps it all stable , till can be burnt off and re drilled

 

[AngusLad]

its the compaction they dont like , think of those lambs on stubble turnip / swede somme looking fields in winter , huge rain storm top soil ends up in the river , by leaving something there it keeps it all stable , till can be burnt off and re drilled

I understand that. I was more meaning I don't understand how wintering sheep on arable crops can add organic matter to the soil? If you graze a field and don't cut it for silage etc then you're not removing organic matter from that field, but you are also not adding to it.. or certainly not in a noticeable fashion

 

[M-J-G]

The energy and protein used to keep the animal alive is being removed, if it was all being returned to the soil the animals wouldn't be getting any nutrition from what they are eating.

 

[AngusLad]

The energy and protein used to keep the animal alive is being removed, if it was all being returned to the soil the animals wouldn't be getting any nutrition from what they are eating.

Yes, organic matter is returned though. 97% volume of what a ruminant eats is passed back out the back end of it

 

[M-J-G]

Yes, organic matter is returned though. 97% volume of what a ruminant eats is passed back out the back end of it

But in a degraded state with a lot of nutrients removed.

You get nothing for nothing.

 

[AngusLad]

But in a degraded state with a lot of nutrients removed.

You get nothing for nothing.

This is what I'm saying that I don't see how there is a benefit to the soil. Livestock don't create nutrients/organic matter

 

[andybk]

Sheep remove very little NPK from grazing (hardly anything) what they do do is process organic matter so plants can utilise nutrients from it better , rather than just relying on bacteria and insect/ worm activity to break it down , Sheep / cattle manure also feed other insects which in turn feed whole eco systems
The Golden hoof had a place in arable systems for many years , i for one am glad its making a return

 

[M-J-G]

This is what I'm saying that I don't see how there is a benefit to the soil. Livestock don't create nutrients/organic matter

Yes, it's mainly benefits the animal or livestock owner, or whoever the land owner is if they are charging rent

 

[Derrick Hughes]

All I know is you get a wonderful crop of barley after grazed roots

 

[Hill Ground]

This is what I'm saying that I don't see how there is a benefit to the soil. Livestock don't create nutrients/organic matter

They return it in a more crop available form, and doesn't rotting green material use up soil nitrogen taking it away from the following crop??

 

[AngusLad]

They return it in a more crop available form, and doesn't rotting green material use up soil nitrogen taking it away from the following crop??

That's what I always thought about regen type grazing that breaking down trampled in grass would use up available nitrogen and possibly make the soil more acidic?

 

[M-J-G]

They return it in a more crop available form, and doesn't rotting green material use up soil nitrogen taking it away from the following crop??

It doesn't use it up, it just temporarily locks it up, but its is returned after the OM is broken down, how long this takes depends on the crop and the health of the soil.

Soil that has the suitable microbial levels to break down OM will do so with ease, starved soils that are reliant on bagged N will struggle to

Likewise green manure will break down a lot quicker and easier than something like straw.
That's why you often hear arable farmers complain that they plough straw up the following year and it looks like it did when it came out the back of the combine

 

[neilo]

This is what I'm saying that I don't see how there is a benefit to the soil. Livestock don't create nutrients/organic matter

The growing crop ‘creates’ nutrients/organic matter, through growing and scavenging nutrients that would otherwise have been leached out (plus whatever nutrients applied of course).

The grazing stock make use of those nutrients in the crop, passing most of it out in a crop available form, without needing fuel, herbicides and/or wearing metal to do so.

It’s a revolutionary new idea, needing a catchy new name, much like ‘regenerative farming’. I might label it the ‘Golden Hoof’, and see if I can capitalise on selling the idea to consultants.

 

[beardface]

Sheep remove very little NPK from grazing (hardly anything) what they do do is process organic matter so plants can utilise nutrients from it better , rather than just relying on bacteria and insect/ worm activity to break it down , Sheep / cattle manure also feed other insects which in turn feed whole eco systems
The Golden hoof had a place in arable systems for many years , i for one am glad its making a return

Mainly makes the nitrogen highly available from there urine. If the plants have to break down that locks up N until the biomass is fully degraded.