Cereals phosphate strategies

[Clive]

By the way looking at that Umostart brochure - what is the relative nutrient load of 5g of Umostart compared to 5g N? Is there the same absolute amount of nutrient in 10kg of Umostart as 50kg of DAP? Or is just more finely ground

It's just finely ground

don't buy into the concept at all personally - just another example of making a cheap product expensive with branding and a bit of very simple processing

 

[Clive]

I don't think starter fert is needed for autumn drilled crops at all with the exception of OSR where I plan to use DAP / MAP as much for the N as the P really

where I think they have value is spring crops to get them off to a good start in colder soil - I plan to use MAP or DAP there again to get a big chunk of my N and P into the seedbed as it's worked very well where I have done that this spring. The DAP I used this spring actually worked out to be a very cheap source of N so I saved money doing this rather than spend extra for this perceived "establishment insurance"

 

[dontknowanything]

What about 15kg/ha of fine DAP @ £800/t.

£5/ac

(For WOSR)

 

[SilliamWhale]

I don't think starter fert is needed for autumn drilled crops at all with the exception of OSR where I plan to use DAP / MAP as much for the N as the P really

where I think they have value is spring crops to get them off to a good start in colder soil - I plan to use MAP or DAP there again to get a big chunk of my N and P into the seedbed as it's worked very well where I have done that this spring. The DAP I used this spring actually worked out to be a very cheap source of N so I saved money doing this rather than spend extra for this perceived "establishment insurance"

i think for a second cereal its a possibility. Wheat after legumes or rape I wouldn't feel a pressing need unless time was moving on.

I see what you mean about spring crops and I guess it actually replaces what is needed later on in spring which so makes it better proposition.

 

[SilliamWhale]

What about 15kg/ha of fine DAP @ £800/t.

£5/ac

(For WOSR)

what is this? Fine DAP different to normal?

 

[dontknowanything]

what is this? Fine DAP different to normal?

It's finely ground, like Umostart, so you can blow it through an Umostart kit. Also, like you said above "more sites"

 

[Andrew K]

Was offered an

I don't think starter fert is needed for autumn drilled crops at all with the exception of OSR where I plan to use DAP / MAP as much for the N as the P really

where I think they have value is spring crops to get them off to a good start in colder soil - I plan to use MAP or DAP there again to get a big chunk of my N and P into the seedbed as it's worked very well where I have done that this spring. The DAP I used this spring actually worked out to be a very cheap source of N so I saved money doing this rather than spend extra for this perceived "establishment insurance"

Did you use an applicator on the 750A Clive, or did you make quite a bit of use of the Dale?

 

[Clive]

Was offered an

Did you use an applicator on the 750A Clive, or did you make quite a bit of use of the Dale?

Only the Dale drilled crop had placed P - all spring 750a crops had the same qty of DAP broadcast to the seedbed pre drilling - the Dale crops got away much faster and stronger than the 750a crops but to be fair now the difference is less notable than in the early weeks

 

[Andrew K]

This was what I was intending to do. Thus far, no joy in getting any MAP in the shed. Just keep getting asked if I want DAP instead. Other option would be to see what Omex or similar could produce and see what sort of pH it would be.

Managed to buy some MAP from frontier this week .

 

[Andrew K]

Only the Dale drilled crop had placed P - all spring 750a crops had the same qty of DAP broadcast to the seedbed pre drilling - the Dale crops got away much faster and stronger than the 750a crops but to be fair now the difference is less notable than in the early weeks

Would be interested to see pics of any untreated versus broadcast or placed fert Clive?

 

[SilliamWhale]

Only the Dale drilled crop had placed P - all spring 750a crops had the same qty of DAP broadcast to the seedbed pre drilling - the Dale crops got away much faster and stronger than the 750a crops but to be fair now the difference is less notable than in the early weeks

This is what a lot say. By harvest you may not notice. That said if your using fert anyway then its not a waste but if using a special processed fert for higher cost then it does seem a waste

 

[The Ruminant]

Just started reading Gary Zimmer's book "The Biological Farmer" and he encourages the use of MAP but says DAP releases "considerable amounts of ammonia in the soil, harming seedlings and roots".

 

[Robigus]

Just started reading Gary Zimmer's book "The Biological Farmer" and he encourages the use of MAP but says DAP releases "considerable amounts of ammonia in the soil, harming seedlings and roots".

Just started reading it as well. I have some MAP ordered for this autumn but the DAP we put in with our late drilled mustard seed did a great job. We had a blocked counter for a couple of drags and the difference was very marked.