Certified vs. FSS

[Grower Tesque]

How much can be saved? Assuming same dressings used and royalties paid.
Whenever I've looked into it the saving seem minimal, what are others opinions?

 

[Shutesy]

I'm assuming your probably on about cereals but I just did a few sums this AM on using FSS OSR seed. Seed cost last year was £61.25/ha sowing Elgar @5.9kg/ha. Using a OSR price for August this year of £312 and a BSPB price of £9.04/ha royalty, sowing @8kg/ha gives a price of £11.54/ha so a saving of £49.71/ha, over our 28ha thats £1391.88 saved on a highly risky crop at establishment. We are saving the seed from a field that hasn't had OSR on it before and will buy 1 bag to grow on for seed next year in a field that hasn't had OSR for at least 6 years. Obviously the bought in seed had a seed dressing of some kind but im not sure its worth it tbh and theres no cleaning costs in there but undecided if we will clean it ourselves or get a seed cleaner in which will obviously add a little to the cost.

 

[Grower Tesque]

Yes, I was referring to cereals,
I am looking to FSS some OSR this autumn, have gone back to growing conventional and with the loss of neonics I'm planning to save a ton and re-drill undressed at a higher rate, then by a bag for next season

 

[Shutesy]

Yes, I was referring to cereals,
I am looking to FSS some OSR this autumn, have gone back to growing conventional and with the loss of neonics I'm planning to save a ton and re-drill undressed at a higher rate, then by a bag for next season

Exactly the same here, sorry can't help with cereals we still buy them all in currently though may try some FSS Orwell barley in the autumn.

 

[Clive]

its not just what you save but also the risk profile

Take OSR for example - FFS cost me 32p /kg if I price it at ex farm harvest kind of price

lets say I drill 5kg /ha - i'm now exposed to £1,60 of risk if CSFB come and eat it

If that was a new hybrid I would be £60 plus /ha exposed


Royalties paid in Jan when I have a crop - just under £10/ha IIRC so still a massive saving over new seed

Utter no brainier on OSR IMO unless you want a new variety or a hybrid / clear field etc


Saving is there on wheat as well - £150-200 (depending on how you well you sold your wheat this year) and as we clean ourselves and don't dress just royalty and lab testing to pay on top of that vs new seed at what £450 plus per tonne maybe ?? - does a decent sample of wheat even need cleaning ??? we sometime just bucket of the heap if I'm honest

I would say these are savings worth having !


If you need to dress and buy the dressing yourself you would be surprised just how cheap they are, without doubt the highest margin ag chem there are !

 

[Zippy768]

I'm assuming your probably on about cereals but I just did a few sums this AM on using FSS OSR seed. Seed cost last year was £61.25/ha sowing Elgar @5.9kg/ha. Using a OSR price for August this year of £312 and a BSPB price of £9.04/ha royalty, sowing @8kg/ha gives a price of £11.54/ha so a saving of £49.71/ha, over our 28ha thats £1391.88 saved on a highly risky crop at establishment. We are saving the seed from a field that hasn't had OSR on it before and will buy 1 bag to grow on for seed next year in a field that hasn't had OSR for at least 6 years. Obviously the bought in seed had a seed dressing of some kind but im not sure its worth it tbh and theres no cleaning costs in there but undecided if we will clean it ourselves or get a seed cleaner in which will obviously add a little to the cost.

Planted Fss osr for the first time last Autumn. Looked into getting it professionally cleaned and tested, with 20p worth of fungicide dressing on. With the royalties, the price quoted was within a few quid (per acre) of buying new seed.

Instead spent £10 on a 12x8 inch perforated sheet of steel and chucked 50 seeds into a pot on the windowsill.
Very happy with the savings, but of course I have spent in all on fungicides instead

 

[Grower Tesque]

its not just what you save but also the risk profile

Take OSR for example - FFS cost me 32p /kg if I price it at ex farm harvest kind of price

lets say I drill 5kg /ha - i'm now exposed to £1,60 of risk if CSFB come and eat it

If that was a new hybrid I would be £60 plus /ha exposed


Royalties paid in Jan when I have a crop - just under £10/ha IIRC so still a massive saving over new seed

Utter no brainier on OSR IMO unless you want a new variety or a hybrid / clear field etc


Saving is there on wheat as well - £150-200 (depending on how you well you sold your wheat this year) and as we clean ourselves and don't dress just royalty and lab testing to pay on top of that vs new seed at what £450 plus per tonne maybe ?? - does a decent sample of wheat even need cleaning ??? we sometime just bucket of the heap if I'm honest

I would say these are savings worth having !


If you need to dress and buy the dressing yourself you would be surprised just how cheap they are, without doubt the highest margin ag chem there are !

Interesting stuff!

How would I go about dressing the seed myself? What dresser do I buy? (would do about 50 t/yr)

 

[farming4profit]

I don't disagree with anything you have said regarding price saving on seed cost, but do bare in mind that the erucic acid levels in OSR grain now sit at 2% max over which loads will be rejected and that shed OSR seed (from forgotten industrial rape crops perhaps) can sit in the soil 30 years. Note also that charlock seed typically contains nearly 32% erucic acid, wild radish around 27% and hedge mustard 21%. Seed crops are generally grown on virgin OSR ground or at least 10 years clear and samples must not contain any of the cruciferous weed seeds mentioned - erradicating the crops within the seed field, because it is nearly impossible to remove them from the sample.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Interesting stuff!

How would I go about dressing the seed myself? What dresser do I buy? (would do about 50 t/yr)

You seed 50 ton of osr a year?

 

[Clive]

Interesting stuff!

How would I go about dressing the seed myself? What dresser do I buy? (would do about 50 t/yr)

if you have a half decent combine and driver I would just grab some out the heap ! keep a field of part field that's especially clean / no headlands etc and keep that separate

If you want to go further you can buy a cleaner or get a contractor in to do it

I made my OSR cleaner out of some scrap in the workshop and a vacuum cleaner - there is a thread on here somewhere about it

 

[Clive]

I don't disagree with anything you have said regarding price saving on seed cost, but do bare in mind that the erucic acid levels in OSR grain now sit at 2% max over which loads will be rejected and that shed OSR seed (from forgotten industrial rape crops perhaps) can sit in the soil 30 years. Note also that charlock seed typically contains nearly 32% erucic acid, wild radish around 27% and hedge mustard 21%. Seed crops are generally grown on virgin OSR ground or at least 10 years clear and samples must not contain any of the cruciferous weed seeds mentioned - erradicating the crops within the seed field, because it is nearly impossible to remove them from the sample.

a very fair l point if you have weedy OSR I wouldn't save it

but I think most farms can find say 0,25 or so of a acre that are clean - which will provider enough seed for a lot of acres

you could even hand weed a patch that size !

 

[ZXR17]

My Crusoe and Zyatt Fss worked out at £305 / ton with Redigo Pro dressing and allowing £ 170 / ton for the grain .

 

[T Hectares]

Last year I FSS'd everything apart from an odd bag of OSR, one field of hybrid and a 500kg bag of each variety / crop for the next year.

Osr and Beans were just cleaned
Cereals were spd dressed for S.Barley and Redigo deter on the wheat, some crops saved more than others, wheat being the least saving, anyhow, it equated to a £30/ha average saving or around £10k over my cropping.

Happy enough with that...

 

[SilliamWhale]

Interesting stuff!

How would I go about dressing the seed myself? What dresser do I buy? (would do about 50 t/yr)

Clean cereal seed in the grain dryer. Or just don't worry about it and just re-seed.Pick a clean field. Fill up from dryer using big bags used for spuds

 

[SilliamWhale]

I don't disagree with anything you have said regarding price saving on seed cost, but do bare in mind that the erucic acid levels in OSR grain now sit at 2% max over which loads will be rejected and that shed OSR seed (from forgotten industrial rape crops perhaps) can sit in the soil 30 years. Note also that charlock seed typically contains nearly 32% erucic acid, wild radish around 27% and hedge mustard 21%. Seed crops are generally grown on virgin OSR ground or at least 10 years clear and samples must not contain any of the cruciferous weed seeds mentioned - erradicating the crops within the seed field, because it is nearly impossible to remove them from the sample.

You can test your seed for it. £90

 

[Fish]

All rape fss, apart from two new bags every year, a quick clean, no dressing.
Wheat, almost the same, we just harvest into two old 10 ton dump trailers, then after harvest we run the seed over the cleaner twice and back into the trailers. We then just load the drill with the loader straight from the trailers, no dressing, no bags.
We do buy in a few tonnes of new seed every year to grow on for next year's seed.
All royalties payed in Nov/Dec.

 

[Grower Tesque]

You seed 50 ton of osr a year?

No, all seed used, cereals, OSR and pulses

 

[Chae1]

Spring barley, seed £220/t, royalties £50/t, cleaning/dressing £90/t so £360/t.

C2 seed from merchant £475, so £110/t saving if you knock off £5/t for handling.

Could knock off the £90/t for dressing/cleaning and save even more.

 

[D14]

I don't disagree with anything you have said regarding price saving on seed cost, but do bare in mind that the erucic acid levels in OSR grain now sit at 2% max over which loads will be rejected and that shed OSR seed (from forgotten industrial rape crops perhaps) can sit in the soil 30 years. Note also that charlock seed typically contains nearly 32% erucic acid, wild radish around 27% and hedge mustard 21%. Seed crops are generally grown on virgin OSR ground or at least 10 years clear and samples must not contain any of the cruciferous weed seeds mentioned - erradicating the crops within the seed field, because it is nearly impossible to remove them from the sample.

You can high erucic acid from any seed, even new like my neighbour discovered this year, but the seed supplier doesn’t want to know.

 

[Billboy1]

Saving my osr this year will it save again next year or do you need to save from new seed every year ?