Challenger pulled out of Europe

[Sackofnuts]

 

[MrOl]

Interesting to see if they put the same engine in it for Europe or not.

 

[binbusy]

Odd. The picture I saw had black rims as it was using the same running gear as the US challenger version.
Looks like they've got red since then.

 

[oil barron]

This quote from that page is interesting and alarming


That sounds awfully like tractors and machines having brand-specific communication systems and protocols instead of the universal ISOBus system.
This trend should be resisted at all costs. Having implements that will only communicate most effectively with a single brand of tractor is an attempt at manipulating the market in my opinion. It is certainly not in the customer or user's best interest to be tied into one brand.

Don't let any of the big companies get away with this. If they dare try, vote with your chequebooks against it.

What they will try to do is get a baler, for instance, to bale, stop tractor motion, wrap and eject and restart without driver intervention. The big brands may possibly try and sell such integrated features, working only exclusively with their brand of tractor and implement, as a massive advantage, but they are only really doing it to tie people in to the brand. Don't forget that the driver has a brain that should at least do some work while driving a tractor.

New holland already has that for round balers. It is worked through isobus though.

 

[Farmer Roy]

This quote from that page is interesting and alarming


That sounds awfully like tractors and machines having brand-specific communication systems and protocols instead of the universal ISOBus system.
This trend should be resisted at all costs. Having implements that will only communicate most effectively with a single brand of tractor is an attempt at manipulating the market in my opinion. It is certainly not in the customer or user's best interest to be tied into one brand.

Don't let any of the big companies get away with this. If they dare try, vote with your chequebooks against it.

What they will try to do is get a baler, for instance, to bale, stop tractor motion, wrap and eject and restart without driver intervention. The big brands may possibly try and sell such integrated features, working only exclusively with their brand of tractor and implement, as a massive advantage, but they are only really doing it to tie people in to the brand. Don't forget that the driver has a brain that should at least do some work while driving a tractor.

One of the reasons I've resisted Deere equipment is because they seem to be on this very path . . .

 

[Colin]

Oh f**k I've just been sick in my mouth[emoji55]

 

[Mr Charisma]

Oh fudge I've just been sick in my mouth[emoji55]

Think your self lucky ,,,,,,,, I pee'd myself laughing !!!!!!

 

[Lincsman]

This quote from that page is interesting and alarming


That sounds awfully like tractors and machines having brand-specific communication systems and protocols instead of the universal ISOBus system.
This trend should be resisted at all costs. Having implements that will only communicate most effectively with a single brand of tractor is an attempt at manipulating the market in my opinion. It is certainly not in the customer or user's best interest to be tied into one brand.

Don't let any of the big companies get away with this. If they dare try, vote with your chequebooks against it.

What they will try to do is get a baler, for instance, to bale, stop tractor motion, wrap and eject and restart without driver intervention. The big brands may possibly try and sell such integrated features, working only exclusively with their brand of tractor and implement, as a massive advantage, but they are only really doing it to tie people in to the brand. Don't forget that the driver has a brain that should at least do some work while driving a tractor.

Well, New holland currently have this on there new tractor and baler, but it can run on older New Hollands and other makes with a different "box", why wont that always be the case otherwise your market becomes very limited?.. betamax!

 

[Cowabunga]

Well, New holland currently have this on there new tractor and baler, but it can run on older New Hollands and other makes with a different "box", why wont that always be the case otherwise your market becomes very limited?.. betamax!

Because the bigger tractor companies are going full line and want to squeeze the independents out of their dealers. It is becoming apparent that this is what is happening and it is up to customers either to resist this change or to go along with it like lambs to the slaughter.

I've given you a wake-up call, its up to you what you do with it.

For myself, I would support Isobus and its universal interface.

When tractor manufacturers made mostly tractors it was in everyone's interest to standardise the systems for mating tractors to implements. Now that the major ones are going full line and with increased novel electronic integration possibilities, it is becoming increasingly attractive for manufacturers to try and lock customers into their own ecosystem in order to sell that full line of implements.

 

[Lincsman]

Because the bigger tractor companies are going full line and want to squeeze the independents out of their dealers. It is becoming apparent that this is what is happening and it is up to customers either to resist this change or to go along with it like lambs to the slaughter.

I've given you a wake-up call, its up to you what you do with it.

For myself, I would support Isobus and its universal interface.

When tractor manufacturers made mostly tractors it was in everyone's interest to standardise the systems for mating tractors to implements. Now that the major ones are going full line and with increased novel electronic integration possibilities, it is becoming increasingly attractive for manufacturers to try and lock customers into their own ecosystem in order to sell that full line of implements.

Still not convinced, eg, farmer A has been JD tractors for years, but finds only the NH baler suits what he needs and not the deere one, so now buys a NH tractor leaving JD without a tractor or baler sale. (and vice-versa obviously)

 

[Robt]

I must have missed the new Holland press release. ISO11783 standard is just that. Are you saying that a new holland ISO baler will have features activated only if it's paired with a new holland tractor screen? If so what features?
Currently you can run a jd sprayer on any ISO screen such as Topcon/Trimble etc.....

 

[njneer]

This quote from that page is interesting and alarming


That sounds awfully like tractors and machines having brand-specific communication systems and protocols instead of the universal ISOBus system.
This trend should be resisted at all costs. Having implements that will only communicate most effectively with a single brand of tractor is an attempt at manipulating the market in my opinion. It is certainly not in the customer or user's best interest to be tied into one brand.

Don't let any of the big companies get away with this. If they dare try, vote with your chequebooks against it.

What they will try to do is get a baler, for instance, to bale, stop tractor motion, wrap and eject and restart without driver intervention. The big brands may possibly try and sell such integrated features, working only exclusively with their brand of tractor and implement, as a massive advantage, but they are only really doing it to tie people in to the brand. Don't forget that the driver has a brain that should at least do some work while driving a tractor.

This is already available , T.I.M ( Tractor Implement Management).
Communicating over the standardised isobus system , each implement manufacturer has its own operating system that can be married to any tractor isobus,as long as it is TIM ready, using a purchasable licence from the implement manufacturer.
Once the licence is purchased and the relevant release code inputed to the tractor system the implement can control the tractor by monitoring the IMPLEMENTS performance data to control the tractor to maximise the IMPLEMENTS performance instead of the current trend to drive the implement to the tractors limits.

Great idea in theory but I still think there is no substitute for human processing of conditions and machine performance.

 

[Cowabunga]

I must have missed the new Holland press release. ISO11783 standard is just that. Are you saying that a new holland ISO baler will have features activated only if it's paired with a new holland tractor screen? If so what features?
Currently you can run a jd sprayer on any ISO screen such as Topcon/Trimble etc.....

What I am saying is that the way I interpret recent press releases is that there is a danger that the big brands are planning to launch features on implements and tractors that will only be available to that brand pairing, and that might include novel and unique interfaces other than the current isobus universal one.
There may well be good reasons for doing this if isobus is limiting development, but that should be a good reason to develop isobus further rather than develop their own alternatives or lock customers out from certain features if the outfit doesn't have the same brand badges.

They haven't done this yet of course, but there is a distinct risk of the big tractor brands going down this route in order to either freeze independents like McHale and Kuhn and Bogballe etc out with competing products or/and lock people into their own ecosystem in order to use these features.

 

[David6330]

I have a feeling that this thing of the big brands locking users into their ecosystem is already happening.

From what I know about the latest NH big square baler, it requires the latest T7 series NH (or Case Puma/Optum) tractor with CVT transmission and tractor software unlock to ISOBUS Class 3 for the baler to control the forward speed of the tractor automatically.

I've no idea if the same baler would work in full auto mode if put on a JD tractor with CVT transmission.

 

[Lincsman]

I have a feeling that this thing of the big brands locking users into their ecosystem is already happening.

From what I know about the latest NH big square baler, it requires the latest T7 series NH (or Case Puma/Optum) tractor with CVT transmission and tractor software unlock to ISOBUS Class 3 for the baler to control the forward speed of the tractor automatically.

I've no idea if the same baler would work in full auto mode if put on a JD tractor with CVT transmission.

But then if there is a demand for such a system isnt hard enough to do "in house" tractors never mind every other brand? then again if we are heading driverless then this stuff will be essential.

 

[David6330]

But then if there is a demand for such a system isnt hard enough to do "in house" tractors never mind every other brand? then again if we are heading driverless then this stuff will be essential.

No doubt it's difficult developing this tech in house to work on your own stuff let alone getting it to work on other brands. It's up to the manufacturers to talk to each other and check if their stuff will work with other brands. Some are better than others at working on this and some couldn't be arsed. There's a convention called Plugfest where they meet up and test their stuff against each other for compatibility.

 

[Robt]

David6330. Pretty sure that's the "TIM" project. And "should " work on any make of tractor meeting TIM specifications .
Exciting stuff as computer control will always beat human control .....

 

[David6330]

David6330. Pretty sure that's the "TIM" project. And "should " work on any make of tractor meeting TIM specifications .
Exciting stuff as computer control will always beat human control .....

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the "TIM" project you mention and the ISOBUS Class 3 I'm on about are the same thing but differnt names.
Indeed its exciting stuff

 

[stevedave]

I'll put money on it that TIM won't work and will be more hassle than it's worth. It will be full of software problems.

 

[Cowabunga]

The problem with computer control is that it cannot think ahead [much]. But when its done right, it can be an excellent driver aid. Many of today's tractors and implements couldn't work as they do without their computers. Even my ancient NH belt baler and the 25 year old Same with electronic engine management and electronic power shift and linkage control. The next trick is getting the implement to control the tractor and unless they get this right and through a common standard, there will be mayhem in the market and on farm. At the very least there could be very reduced functionality when incompatible machines mate.