Challenges with Tenant Farming.

[Brisel]

GAEC 6 relates to crop residue burning and EIAs. Since you've mentioned an EIA I assume you've sown the rape into grassland that they believed needed an EIA. Now you've got the RPA to deal with as well as your landlord.

 

[Princess Pooper]

It's not only the amount of rent it is the fact that certainly on many tenancies it is in advance. As you know, it may be months before there is anything to sell from that land, so the working capital requirement is substantial.

 

[B R C]

I would say anyone with aha tenancy is on a good thing really, the rent paid for the farm as a whole often equates to what would be a commercial rent for the house only. They haven’t had to buy the farm in the first place, you can’t have your cake and eat it.

 

[Lazy Sod]

I quite agree, @B R C , I had my AHA for 50 years, from the age of 23 and am very grateful for it. Unless you had a lump of money, buying a farm was out of the question. Tenancies were hard enough to find in the sixties and in the seventies, but the 1976 act made them even rarer. My landlord took a dairy farm back in hand, spent a lot of money, probably lost a lot and finally re-let it.

I shall always be grateful to my father. The son of an estate worker and one of 9 children, he left school aged 13 and went to work on an estate farm. He worked his balls off, his talents were recognised and eventually he became the farm manager for the son of his employer, on a different farm.

He started farming on his own in 1928 on a 30 acre farm with 7 dairy cows and some poultry. He obtained the tenancy of my farm in 1935 and never looked back.

 

[chipchap]

I would say anyone with aha tenancy is on a good thing really, the rent paid for the farm as a whole often equates to what would be a commercial rent for the house only. They haven’t had to buy the farm in the first place, you can’t have your cake and eat it.

You may think so, but I would say those who are on to a good thing are those that have a farm bought and paid for and handed to them on a plate.

 

[B R C]

I agree anyoneone who inherits a lot of money wether it’s cash, houses or land is very fortunate. Before we purchased the farm we had an aha and the rent for decent sized farmhouse and 200ac was about half what a similar sized house would be on its own! We are in an expensive area though so not the same everywhere. We also spent a lot of our own money improving it over years, some tenants don’t want to spend a penny on their buildings thinking the landlord should pay for every last nail, I don’t get that attitude when you’re probably going to be there for decades, a new shed is easily justified on a reducing ownership basis. The moaners are the ones who don’t progress usually(slight generalisation but hope you get my point).

 

[glasshouse]

It's not only the amount of rent it is the fact that certainly on many tenancies it is in advance. As you know, it may be months before there is anything to sell from that land, so the working capital requirement is substantial.

Tenants have to finance the landlords summer parties and foreign holidays.
Thats the reason for paying rent long before harvest

 

[glasshouse]

I agree anyoneone who inherits a lot of money wether it’s cash, houses or land is very fortunate. Before we purchased the farm we had an aha and the rent for decent sized farmhouse and 200ac was about half what a similar sized house would be on its own! We are in an expensive area though so not the same everywhere. We also spent a lot of our own money improving it over years, some tenants don’t want to spend a penny on their buildings thinking the landlord should pay for every last nail, I don’t get that attitude when you’re probably going to be there for decades, a new shed is easily justified on a reducing ownership basis. The moaners are the ones who don’t progress usually(slight generalisation but hope you get my point).

Arent you lucky that the labour govt made it possible for you to have a low rent and to ultimeately buy your farm at a huge discount

 

[MattWG]

We’ve tried for a few farms and as we had built up a flock while still in full time work getting the funds wasn’t a problem.
Biggest problem is finding the farms, length of tenancy but the biggest problem was the high rent.
We could break even at £120 an acre and would have to make money by doing loose work and shearing, but round here (Devon) rents are now in excess of £150 (Someone even paid £220/acre a year back) and its just not worth it.
We sold our flock this winter as there was no point holding onto it if we weren’t going to get our own farm

 

[glasshouse]

We’ve tried for a few farms and as we had built up a flock while still in full time work getting the funds wasn’t a problem.
Biggest problem is finding the farms, length of tenancy but the biggest problem was the high rent.
We could break even at £120 an acre and would have to make money by doing loose work and shearing, but round here (Devon) rents are now in excess of £150 (Someone even paid £220/acre a year back) and its just not worth it.
We sold our flock this winter as there was no point holding onto it if we weren’t going to get our own farm

If you want to farm sheep or just farm, you need to move to france or australia/nz.
So few farms come up here that you will die waiting for a farm you cant afford
Tree planting is taking lots of farms off the rent and buying market too

 

[Cosatto]

Tree planting - says it all! We have hundreds of thousands of hectares of uplands good for sweet ferk all apart from growing trees but no they plant trees on productive farm land instead - pure bonkers!

 

[mixed breed]

My father got a lucky break in the form of an aha on his great uncles farm where he worked from a young age. They agreed a rent between themselves and uncle still kept a hand in on his farm.

Fast forward 30 years and with uncle long deceased his daughter wanted us out, she and her agent turned up with news that they wanted the split the farm up for tax purposes, suggesting that father take a handout to leave, retire early and enjoy life. Dad wasn't so keen, he had not long lost mother and the farm was all he had, plus I myself had put my time in too and deserved a bite at it.

It became a very miserable time for us, land agent was out every month finding faults, putting the frighteners on with wild dilapidation claims, I recall a meeting to discuss my succession, I was told the only way I'd have it, is on a two year fbt. We got the tfa involved, that went down like a lead balloon.. Agent's are funny like that.

Meetings got more and more heated, threats got bigger and at one meeting in particular dad got clobbered with a handbag. I think it was worse because we were related.

In the end I came up with a solution (more to save Dad the upset than to appease them) we let them split it up, they get the house and buildings and we get some land as compensation plus I get succession of the rest on the aha, most importantly though, no dilapidation claim.

It worked, we moved to our small holding down the road and they had the buildings on the market within 6 months they sold to a developer for not very big money, Its all houses now.

Do I miss it? Hmm A big cold house that they wouldn't spend on with outdated unworkable buildings..... Not a chance.

 

[Spud]

My father got a lucky break in the form of an aha on his great uncles farm where he worked from a young age. They agreed a rent between themselves and uncle still kept a hand in on his farm.

Fast forward 30 years and with uncle long deceased his daughter wanted us out, she and her agent turned up with news that they wanted the split the farm up for tax purposes, suggesting that father take a handout to leave, retire early and enjoy life. Dad wasn't so keen, he had not long lost mother and the farm was all he had, plus I myself had put my time in too and deserved a bite at it.

It became a very miserable time for us, land agent was out every month finding faults, putting the frighteners on with wild dilapidation claims, I recall a meeting to discuss my succession, I was told the only way I'd have it, is on a two year fbt. We got the tfa involved, that went down like a lead balloon.. Agent's are funny like that.

Meetings got more and more heated, threats got bigger and at one meeting in particular dad got clobbered with a handbag. I think it was worse because we were related.

In the end I came up with a solution (more to save Dad the upset than to appease them) we let them split it up, they get the house and buildings and we get some land as compensation plus I get succession of the rest on the aha, most importantly though, no dilapidation claim.

It worked, we moved to our small holding down the road and they had the buildings on the market within 6 months they sold to a developer for not very big money, Its all houses now.

Do I miss it? Hmm A big cold house that they wouldn't spend on with outdated unworkable buildings..... Not a chance.

Well done, that can't of been an easy time.

 

[mixed breed]

Well done, that can't of been an easy time.

Dealing with the unknown was the worst part, a 2 year fbt was worth nothing, how can anyone reinvestment when you could be out on your ear in 2 years? They gave reassurance the tenancy would automatically renew every two years, but how could I be sure, particularly when from the outset it was clear they wanted us out.

 

[glasshouse]

My father got a lucky break in the form of an aha on his great uncles farm where he worked from a young age. They agreed a rent between themselves and uncle still kept a hand in on his farm.

Fast forward 30 years and with uncle long deceased his daughter wanted us out, she and her agent turned up with news that they wanted the split the farm up for tax purposes, suggesting that father take a handout to leave, retire early and enjoy life. Dad wasn't so keen, he had not long lost mother and the farm was all he had, plus I myself had put my time in too and deserved a bite at it.

It became a very miserable time for us, land agent was out every month finding faults, putting the frighteners on with wild dilapidation claims, I recall a meeting to discuss my succession, I was told the only way I'd have it, is on a two year fbt. We got the tfa involved, that went down like a lead balloon.. Agent's are funny like that.

Meetings got more and more heated, threats got bigger and at one meeting in particular dad got clobbered with a handbag. I think it was worse because we were related.

In the end I came up with a solution (more to save Dad the upset than to appease them) we let them split it up, they get the house and buildings and we get some land as compensation plus I get succession of the rest on the aha, most importantly though, no dilapidation claim.

It worked, we moved to our small holding down the road and they had the buildings on the market within 6 months they sold to a developer for not very big money, Its all houses now.

Do I miss it? Hmm A big cold house that they wouldn't spend on with outdated unworkable buildings..... Not a chance.

Your dad had the aha? When was this?
They cant sue you for dilapidations unless there is s record of condition at the start, signed off by the secretary of state!

 

[mixed breed]

Your dad had the aha? When was this?
They cant sue you for dilapidations unless there is s record of condition at the start, signed off by the secretary of state!

Yes dad got the tenancy in 1974.
Our agent gave us guidence regarding the dilapidations along similar lines to yours and although it gave us some confidence, getting someone involved inflamed the situation all the more, the constant hounding that followed, particularly when the old lady got personal just ground us down.

I'm sure we could have stuck it out and fought the good fight, but in all honesty a fresh start was needed, the area around the farmstead had become built up, with 4 houses plonked on the vicarage next door and the nearest doorstep (townie) being only 12 metres from our dairy.

In the end the move was a good one, we've still got the land, and another generation to go (if she wants it) and the setup we built here will always be ours.

 

[glasshouse]

Yes, but without the tfa you might not have got anything