Chemical Price Tracker

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Why can't you list them all? Hardly a software issue.

Don't tell me they are secret! :rolleyes:

Yes afraid supply of some product is currently only possible if we don’t promote price online - you can very easy ask for a quote of anything however ............ and you could post those prices here even !

It’s stupid / wrong but the alternative is we can’t supply them at all ....... what would you prefer ?

The politics in Ag chem supply are frankly ridiculous as I have already said many times in this thread. It’s changing though and a big reason for that change in the last 2 yrs is Farm Marketplace

I’m sure in the future everything will be listed on there. It’s not for profit, it’s to try and change things for the better

We are trying to make change, i don’t see anyone else trying ?

Why is it that farmers love to find faults rather than use the energy doing something about a shitty situation ? To make a game changing thing like FMP work it needs farmer support - if everyone started buying form rather than being manipulated as they are today you could change the industry instantly !
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
Yes afraid supply of some product is currently only possible if we don’t promote price online - you can very easy ask for a quote of anything however ............ and you could post those prices here even !

It’s stupid / wrong but the alternative is we can’t supply them at all ....... what would you prefer ?

The politics in Ag chem supply are frankly ridiculous as I have already said many times in this thread. It’s changing though and a big reason for that change in the last 2 yrs is Farm Marketplace

I’m sure in the future everything will be listed on there. It’s not for profit, it’s to try and change things for the better

We are trying to make change, i don’t see anyone else trying ?

Why is it that farmers love to find faults rather than use the energy doing something about a shitty situation ? To make a game changing thing like FMP work it needs farmer support - if everyone started buying form rather than being manipulated as they are today you could change the industry instantly !

Protectionism is a bitch! You can see why I'm reluctant to publish all my prices in my circumstances too. Just another confidentiality clause... Keep up the hard work with FMP and these threads though (y)
 

lloyd

Member
Location
Herefordshire
Clive do you want a everything to be open
And transparent about FMP?

What's your advertising revenue?

What commissions can you expect from sales ?

Your ideas of naming the companies that quote and
trying to get a competitive market place can be commended
but your interests are wider than just being a big arable farmer.

I do agree that chemical prices are way excessive though especially
as there is now some resistance to expensive products which have
to have a secondary product added to the mix as an insurance policy.

Good luck in your quest though!
 
Clive do you want a everything to be open
And transparent about FMP?

What's your advertising revenue?

What commissions can you expect from sales ?

Your ideas of naming the companies that quote and
trying to get a competitive market place can be commended
but your interests are wider than just being a big arable farmer.

I do agree that chemical prices are way excessive though especially
as there is now some resistance to expensive products which have
to have a secondary product added to the mix as an insurance policy.

Good luck in your quest though!

There is a difference though. Clive isn't asking for the chemical suppliers accounts or to know how much margin they make, what he is trying to do is get greater price transparency on what people are paying for standardised products that's the difference. In the same way if we want a tin of baked beans we can scan 20 different shops (online or otherwise to see where the cheapest is).
 
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lloyd

Member
Location
Herefordshire
There is a difference though. Clive isn't asking for the chemical suppliers accounts or to know how much margin they make, what he is trying to do is get greater price transparency on what people are paying for standardised products that's the difference. In the same way if we want a tin of baked beans we can scan 20 different shops (online or otherwise to see where the cheapest is).

I would expect that information could be found in companies house.
The point is if a product is sold by X for £10 and by Y for £9
obviously everyone's going to buy from Y and somebody is going
to get a commission but to enable Y to sell large quantities your
going to want to know who X is and that your getting a better deal.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
There is a difference though. Clive isn't asking for the chemical suppliers accounts or to know how much margin they make, what he is trying to do is get greater price transparency on what people are paying for standardised products that's the difference. In the same way if we want a tin of baked beans we can scan 20 different shops (online or otherwise to see where the cheapest is).

I’m not even trying to get transparency- everyone is entitled to make a profit ! And profit is not a dirty word . Manufacturers and distribution need to be profitable, we need them to be profitable as we are buggered without them ! But things are changing and supply mechanisms that have worked and set prices for decades are now failing and breaking down

What I object to is being bullied - ie supply withdrawn if you dare tell anyone else a price so this is what I aim to change - Farm Compare will end this when we launch it

This practice facilitates min price fixing which hurts us all .... and is actually illegal I might add !
 
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I’m not even trying to get transparency- everyone is entitled to make a profit ! And profit is not a dirty word . Manufacturers and distribution need to be profitable, we need them to be profitable as we are buggered without them ! But things are changing and supply mechanisms that have worked and set prices for decades are now failing and breaking down

What I object to is being bullied - ie supply withdrawn if you dare tell anyone else a price so this is what I aim to change - Farm Compare will end this when we launch it

This practice facilitates min price fixing which hurts us all .... and is actually illegal I might add !

I think TFF has provided a great platform for discussion and knowledge transfer which has made people aware how much people get ripped off, both through proprietary products which are designed to obfuscate and simply through charging some more for the same product. I have said it before, but I think agronomy advice should be separated from supply.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
I think TFF has provided a great platform for discussion and knowledge transfer which has made people aware how much people get ripped off, both through proprietary products which are designed to obfuscate and simply through charging some more for the same product. I have said it before, but I think agronomy advice should be separated from supply.

I agree with advise being separated but I no longer think it’s a problem that needs law to sort as just like you were telling me several years ago the advice is very soon going to be replaced by algorithms that are far better than humans at making the correct decisions ........... and certainly hold no agenda !
 
I agree with advise being separated but I no longer think it’s a problem that needs law to sort as just like you were telling me several years ago the advice is very soon going to be replaced by algorithms that are far better than humans at making the correct decisions ........... and certainly hold no agenda !

I think because you are more at the frontiers of different thinking might mean it's easy to assume this will all happen everywhere very quickly. Just look at things like no-till. In your world it might feel it's how farming should be done, but whenever I drive a decent distance it's still an oddity to see a field that hasn't been cultivated.

I am also sceptical that algorithms will work to the farmers advantage. Look at the distributors now who are madly pushing their own data management (harvesting?!) packages which most likely be geared towards maximising their margins rather than ours. These powerful tools which will use data that farmers generate (whilst paying for the software!) will make the correct decisions for whoever the owners of the IP (clue: not the farmers).

Also, @Clive, finally got a farm debit card so can now order more easily from FMP. Just noticed the Shield I bought last night in a panic from elsewhere is cheaper on FMP. (However, I can buy CTL, Aviator and teb 250 (quite a bit) cheaper at a quick glance.)
 

Hindsight

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
I agree with advise being separated but I no longer think it’s a problem that needs law to sort as just like you were telling me several years ago the advice is very soon going to be replaced by algorithms that are far better than humans at making the correct decisions ........... and certainly hold no agenda !

algorithms that are far better than humans at making the correct decisions ........... and certainly hold no agenda

Sure about that? Think Facebook / Google.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
algorithms that are far better than humans at making the correct decisions ........... and certainly hold no agenda

Sure about that? Think Facebook / Google.

These are not algorithms designed to sell to us - these will be services we are asked to pay for instead of agronomists so they will have to prove themselves better and value or will not be commercially successful

Regardless of Facebook / google agenda they have been pretty dam successful and game changing in the marketing / retail industry !
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
I think because you are more at the frontiers of different thinking might mean it's easy to assume this will all happen everywhere very quickly. Just look at things like no-till. In your world it might feel it's how farming should be done, but whenever I drive a decent distance it's still an oddity to see a field that hasn't been cultivated.

I am also sceptical that algorithms will work to the farmers advantage. Look at the distributors now who are madly pushing their own data management (harvesting?!) packages which most likely be geared towards maximising their margins rather than ours. These powerful tools which will use data that farmers generate (whilst paying for the software!) will make the correct decisions for whoever the owners of the IP (clue: not the farmers).

Also, @Clive, finally got a farm debit card so can now order more easily from FMP. Just noticed the Shield I bought last night in a panic from elsewhere is cheaper on FMP. (However, I can buy CTL, Aviator and teb 250 (quite a bit) cheaper at a quick glance.)

Email / pm or call @Chris F or do the quote me form for stuff not on there - lot of price updates also about to happen
 

Hindsight

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
These are not algorithms designed to sell to us - these will be services we are asked to pay for instead of agronomists so they will have to prove themselves better and value or will not be commercially successful

Regardless of Facebook / google agenda they have been pretty dam successful and game changing in the marketing / retail industry !

Am aware of various decision support systems. As you know they have been around several years. I recall fresh faced out of college using EPIPRE. And several have appeared since. I shall watch with interest how this develops. Whether farmers are prepared 'en masse' to use and rely on these 'remote' approaches and no longer utilise a on farm human. Interesting times, as always.

http://edepot.wur.nl/217752
 

homefarm

Member
Location
N.West
We have had an independent agronamist since 1990.

I believe this is the first step and most rewarding on getting value for money from agro chems, the price per can is nearly irreverlent by comparison.
Until most farmers realise this the present system will continue.

I have always tried to explain the benefits to friends and neighbours and even agronamists but most still carry on as before
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Am aware of various decision support systems. As you know they have been around several years. I recall fresh faced out of college using EPIPRE. And several have appeared since. I shall watch with interest how this develops. Whether farmers are prepared 'en masse' to use and rely on these 'remote' approaches and no longer utilise a on farm human. Interesting times, as always.

http://edepot.wur.nl/217752

Ferra are doing some REALLY interesting stuff which I saw recently

It’s an area which is developing very quickly at the moment

If I was an agronomist and under 60 I would be retraining for a different job !
 

Agrobi

Member
Ferra are doing some REALLY interesting stuff which I saw recently

It’s an area which is developing very quickly at the moment

If I was an agronomist and under 60 I would be retraining for a different job !

As an agronomist trained and practising for 6 years now and also having just celebrated my 30th birthday last week I find your frequent slapdash comments on the above highly offensive.
Despite what you know and what you think you know, the arable and especially the horticultural sectors still need Agronomists and some farms arguably need them more than ever and good ones at that. I commend you for being the successful farmer and businessman that reading this forum would suggest that you are. Its pretty clear to me that you know your stuff, are getting results and enjoy what you do. But, you do not represent the majority of UK farmers, in fact you probably represent a very small percentage. I work in an area dominated by livestock farms and mixed farms, many using arable enterprise to complement their main livestock sectors. Many of these farms are small like 100-200ha and many of the business owners and managers are aged 50plus. The climate here can also be particularly challenging for arable farming. Say what you like about such small and mixed farms but many are very well run and indeed profitable. Many are not but that could be said of many UK farming business irrespective of size. These farms need good sound advice on crop management and crop protection, and they are perfectly entitled to have it. For many they do not have the time to keep up to date with the latest changes in crop protection products and what they should or should not be using (legally), many would not know one end of a cereal plant from the other but they can still grow 12t/ha crops of wheat and run very profitable enterprises- which is what matters ultimately! To help them achieve this they need agronomists, good agronomists and ones that are fair and not there as salesmen to rip them off. The veg farmers out there, a few of which I deal with undoubtedly need good agronomists more than they ever have before, crop protection in these crops is more changing by the month, never mind the year. With respect, Wheat is easy compared to this.
I absolutely do not disagree that technology is evolving at a fantastic rate and in most cases is fantastic in what it can show or tell us. Satellites and mapping among many many other things are making decisions on inputs and strategies easier and probably better but ultimately most of these things can provide you with information, probably more than a crop walking agronomist can but it can’t provide experience and decision making. Hence why most of them can be referred to as decision ‘support’.
I also don’t disagree at all that there are plenty of ‘not so good’ to put it mildly ‘agronomists’ out there, plenty both independent and distributer are glorified salesmen selling whatever they can do to put most in their pension pot each season, many don’t even walk crops where I live and they still have the trust of their customers- don’t ask me how.
This is totally and utterly wrong and should be policed more heavily but god knows how. However, no matter the industry you will get people that abuse their position and do their job selfishly and badly. This also applies to farmers.
So you are entitled to your opinion but can I suggest you stop and engage your brain before constantly coming off with slapdash comments that go way beyond your own situation. I liken it to me saying if I were a farmer below 60 I would go and retrain- because when subsidies firstly get cut and eventually go in their current form at least, many many of you will be up the perverbial creek with no paddle.
I have no farm, I only wish I had. If there was one thing I have always wanted to do it was arable farm but I can’t where I live, at least at the minute. So I do what I consider the next best thing, work with farmers and help their businesses to thrive. I am good at it and most of the time I enjoy it, and take great satisfaction from helping customers get the results they want. I am no salesman I don’t rip people off and I consider it an ever and rapidly changing career, not a job!
 

homefarm

Member
Location
N.West
As an agronomist trained and practising for 6 years now and also having just celebrated my 30th birthday last week I find your frequent slapdash comments on the above highly offensive.

Clive rattled my cage a few posts back, then I remembered an internet forum needs lots of traffic to keep the advertising stream flowing full bore.

Being controversial and rude does stimulate debate, I try not to take it personally.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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