Claydon drill

James W

Member
well we have been struggling on the heavy bgrass land. We have sumo trio on most of our farms and one mcconnel discerator. Then most drills are 'ok' on our medium stretchs of land but on the heaviest blackgrass land normal seed drills are hopeless so we have done a lot of spring crops which have been very dissappointing and dirty. This year we borrowed a Triton and direct drilled all the grey plastic clay in early November , its only just coming through now but looks like every seedling is coming through, and so far we have seen no black-grass but its very early to say.
 

James W

Member
We use w.beans too when we need a good clean up although we have had herbicide failure in beans too. On our worst bits we are now doing wbeans wheat wbeans wheat, we would rather see wire worm than black-grass.
What equipment would you advise ?
 

Douglasmn

Member
we just went out of cattle after 85 years. We won Grand Champion at the Royal Show with our Pedigree Limousins and many other allocades etc, we sold all 600 cattle in autumn 2014 and it was the best thing we ever did. As for milking.. the dairy men have had aterrible few years many have lost their entire livlihoods.
Clearly very skilled with the stock then. If your black grass really is terrible on some land though then would you not say that that implies the current system isn't working especially well? Or is the trend going the right way at least?
 

juke

Member
Location
DURHAM
claydon hybrid, cover crops undersown spring cereals, grass leys. spring beans might help you keep the fields cleaner too over winter

This is the rotation we use.
Barley rape wheat beans wheat cover crop spring oats back to barley. As it stands they all stand on there own,
 
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If you have heavy clay dirt, the loss of your stock will come and bite you eventually.

In my area, it is the presence of grass that makes it possible to get actual arable crops. You can grow cracking crops of anything but not forever. The soil structure is degraded over time and it all slumps into wet morass. It just doesn't appreciate being pulled about all the time.

It's the grass that makes the soil kind enough to work with. I see it all the time where maize is grown continuously. The soil is plain knackered.
 

JCfarmer

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
warks
But surely 9 or even 12" sweeps seriously undermine the minimal disturbance case for these drills.
I have just had OSR put in with a hybrid, both on some stony brash and on some tougher(for us) ground, that you would not willingly plough into rape.
The jury is still sitting...
David were you pleased with the osr establishment and how did it yield?
 

jonnyjon

Member
Hard to say really. I know of 3 members who are selling Claydons due to buying no till drills. Hardly a step backwards, is it? I'm sure there are some who bought them thinking they would fix everything but they haven't lived up to expectations. I don't think they are a cure for blackgrass/other weeds & my slug pellet usage has certainly gone up!
Here's a suggestion for slug problems, stop planting dressed seed, it kills the slug predators.
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
No, all dressings. Have never used deter

Please may you point us in the direction of some work done looking at this? I can quite understand Deter harming ground beetles but am yet to be convinced by fungicides - of course it will vary with which type of fungicide. Golf course green keepers used to use carbendazim fungicides to kill earthworms and prevent worm casts on the greens.

@SilliamWhale - a while ago, we were having a discussion about fungicides and soil life. You posted or linked some work on the effects of some pesticides. Can you remember where that was please?
 

jonnyjon

Member
Please may you point us in the direction of some work done looking at this? I can quite understand Deter harming ground beetles but am yet to be convinced by fungicides - of course it will vary with which type of fungicide. Golf course green keepers used to use carbendazim fungicides to kill earthworms and prevent worm casts on the greens.

@SilliamWhale - a while ago, we were having a discussion about fungicides and soil life. You posted or linked some work on the effects of some pesticides. Can you remember where that was please?
I've done probably 1000's of hours of research and then started to put some of it into practice. Maybe others should do the same, no point in doing it tho unless you except the fact that you know nothing, were wrong all along and are willing to change. Having an attitude that you are being preached to is a none starter. When you farm in a regenerative manner, things quickly change for the better. All chemical fungicides are toxic and destroy soils, research says putting fungicide into the soil via seed dressings is the worst of all
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
I've done probably 1000's of hours of research and then started to put some of it into practice. Maybe others should do the same, no point in doing it tho unless you except the fact that you know nothing, were wrong all along and are willing to change. Having an attitude that you are being preached to is a none starter. When you farm in a regenerative manner, things quickly change for the better. All chemical fungicides are toxic and destroy soils, research says putting fungicide into the soil via seed dressings is the worst of all

I get all that, hence why I'm asking. No offence, but I'm not about to take the word of someone I don't know. A better system is no good if it can't be communicated effectively. Preach to me & I'll ignore what is said.

Chemicals show a net return on investment but I'm always prepared to look deeper. Where less harmful substitutes are available I'd use them if economic. Azoxystrobin is used to suppress the take all fungus which frankly outweighs other beneficial soil fungi in certain circumstances. A better way would be to avoid long runs of cereals so take all isn't an issue. Just one example. With Deter gone, there's less need for a fungicide on certified seed so I may well specify no dressing on bought in C2 this autumn unless there's a bad ear disease year.

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-94-010-1933-0_54
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0045653507005668
https://www.jstor.org/stable/42946972?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
 

jonnyjon

Member
I get all that, hence why I'm asking. No offence, but I'm not about to take the word of someone I don't know. A better system is no good if it can't be communicated effectively. Preach to me & I'll ignore what is said.

Chemicals show a net return on investment but I'm always prepared to look deeper. Where less harmful substitutes are available I'd use them if economic. Azoxystrobin is used to suppress the take all fungus which frankly outweighs other beneficial soil fungi in certain circumstances. A better way would be to avoid long runs of cereals so take all isn't an issue. Just one example. With Deter gone, there's less need for a fungicide on certified seed so I may well specify no dressing on bought in C2 this autumn unless there's a bad ear disease year.

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-94-010-1933-0_54
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0045653507005668
https://www.jstor.org/stable/42946972?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
I've never preached to anyone and I'm not going to start now. With regard to slugs, research says the slug consumes seed dressing but is unharmed by it, beatle eats slug and is poisoned
 

snarling bee

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Bedfordshire
Is that the reason why mercury seed dressings were banned due to the build up of residues in predators?
I'm not knocking your 1000's hours research, but its relevant what seed dressing were used.
 

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