closed traffic gps requirments - no idea, help please.

newholland

Member
Location
England
Good morning.

Have absolutely no idea about tractor GPS systems (I milk cows and scrape slurry).
Am looking for help please:

If I wanted to operate a very basic closed traffic system on grass fields at 8.5m centres......
What system do I need? and how much would it cost is the question.

Basically all I want is for a tractor to drive into each pre programed field and be guided down each set of wheel marks. No idea about accuracy - maybe 10cm?.
It does not have to be auto steering the tractor - maybe just guide the driver?

The system has to be:
Basic,
Cheap as possible,
Moved between tractors easily - if that is possible?

Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated, or even an explanation of what is out there? - I am starting with 0% knowledge.

Many thanks in advance.
 

Boysground

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Wiltshire
With gps you get what you pay for. Cheep and high accuracy don't really come together. I assume that you want to use the guidance for fertiliser spreading. I started with a Trimble ez250 which would a good start. It will remember the fields and give guidance with a light bar and map which you steer to. With an egnos signal you don't get full repeatability of the a-b lines. There is no reference for the box to be more accurate that would cost more.. For fertiliser in grass fields and spraying without tramlines it is fine I suppose they would say 30cm accuracy. I used this for a few years before a change of tractor and sophistication.

TBH any of the simple sat navs available will be a good start. Without auto steer it is just a matter of unplugging the box and removing the antenna from the roof to change tractor. The Trimble has a magnetic antenna so it's easy.

I guess a simple system will be about £1000. If you want more accuracy or autosteer you will have to spend significantly more. I have 2 dairy only friends who use these boxes to spread fertiliser. They won't ever go back to doing it by eye.

Bg
 

newholland

Member
Location
England
Thanks @Boysground .

Don't want it for fert spreading or spraying, as we don't do that.
(Its for muck spreader, slurry tanker, mower, rake, forage wagon etc)
- We want the repeatability of wheel marks in exactly the same place for each field operation , year after year - how do we make that happen please?
 

mo!

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
York
Thanks @Boysground .

Don't want it for fert spreading or spraying, as we don't do that.
(Its for muck spreader, slurry tanker, mower, rake, forage wagon etc)
- We want the repeatability of wheel marks in exactly the same place for each field operation , year after year - how do we make that happen please?
Repeatability means RTK. 10k plus annual subscription. All the major brands do it, pick the one you think will back you up the best. If you have a modern tractor you may be able to have a fully integrated system so no extra screens. More money!
 

Boysground

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Wiltshire
In that case you will have to spend more and enter the confusion of different systems. If you have a tractor that is autosteer ready (has the valves and wires to run steering) it is probably best to use a system that plugs straight into this if not you can have a motor that fits on your steering wheel. Whichever make you have you will have to pay an annual subscription for the more accurate signal mine is about £800. To go full autosteer using 2cm accuracy RTK you will be heading towards 10K.

You will have to decide weather you want to get the kit from your tractor dealer of use one of the other suppliers. It all works you have to use the system that is best for you. It wont be long before some more advice appears on here. I started basic and have slowly developed the system I have just drilled for the 1st time using RTK am just waiting for the barley to emerge to see how good my settings were.

Bg
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
I assume you are looking at slurry/muck spreading given your specified 8.5M track width.

As a beginner quick guide basic gps will give you about 5M accuracy. By using the free correction signals (EGNOS in Europe, SBAS in USA) you can improve this to around 10- 15cm. However, the signal will drift over time. If you want to be able to just drive into the field a week, a month or a year later and be within 10cm then you will need a subscription accuracy signal that compensates for this drift.

In the UK "Rangepoint" (most manufacturers) or "Starfire 1" (John Deere) is the basic one and, I believe, will do what you want. It's about £250 per year per guidance unit.

A basic lightbar guidance unit will guide you to this accuracy and will be around £1000 - £1500 new plus a one-off fee to "unlock" the Rangepoint signal. Unless you are traveling quite slowly and the field is relatively flat it will be difficult to follow a lightbar manually to under 30cm.

Adding assisted steering would easily achieve your desired accuracy but add significant cost.

The different manufacturers all offer their versions off what you are after but as a example from Trimble your options are:

EZ-Guide 250
  • Under £1500 new, around £750 used. EGNOS only. Must have the AG15 antenna to use EGNOS.
  • Pair with EZ-steer steering assistance to achieve your desired accuracy, around £2k new, less used. Easy to swap between machines.
  • Won't do rangepoint (i believe) so would need manually correcting for drift each time you go back to the field.

CFX750 / FMX750

  • Around £2500 new, £1500+ used (with no extras unlocked).
  • Can unlock various extras to upgrade accuracy, operate auto boom shutoff, control variable rate application etc. Some unlocks are expensive.
  • Capable of better than 1cm accuracy on the highest correction signals.
  • Can drive EZ-Steer or step up to EZ-pilot (neater, more accurate, relatively tied to the machine, £2500 new) or full auto steer (more money but even more accurate, plumbed into the steering hydraulics so totally fixed to the machine).
  • If your tractor's auto steer ready then this unit will run the auto steer built in much cheaper.
There are even higher options but they go well beyond your needs.

I hope this helps.
 
Last edited:

Simon Robbins

Member
Location
yo325pb
Good morning.

Have absolutely no idea about tractor GPS systems (I milk cows and scrape slurry).
Am looking for help please:

If I wanted to operate a very basic closed traffic system on grass fields at 8.5m centres......
What system do I need? and how much would it cost is the question.

Basically all I want is for a tractor to drive into each pre programed field and be guided down each set of wheel marks. No idea about accuracy - maybe 10cm?.
It does not have to be auto steering the tractor - maybe just guide the driver?

The system has to be:
Basic,
Cheap as possible,
Moved between tractors easily - if that is possible?

Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated, or even an explanation of what is out there? - I am starting with 0% knowledge.

Many thanks in advance.

Hi I can send you a quote for the basic equipment that will do what you need it to do it wont cost the earth for this, if you send an email for the attention of simon to [email protected] cheers.
 
Location
North
Hi I can send you a quote for the basic equipment that will do what you need it to do it wont cost the earth for this, if you send an email for the attention of simon to [email protected] cheers.

Would be nice for the rest of us to know what you are offering. Does the lower cost option really provide year-on-year repeatability (max 10 cm) or did you bend a bit the requirements set by the OP (might be OK to ignore some requirements, the OP may agree when comparing the price for different options but for a fair comparison, we should have a rough idea about each offering).

Could be my personal opinion but I don't think one can achieve 10 cm accuracy on an assisted steering system (or if that accuracy is reached, it puts more stress on the driver than having no assistance).
 

Simon Robbins

Member
Location
yo325pb
Would be nice for the rest of us to know what you are offering. Does the lower cost option really provide year-on-year repeatability (max 10 cm) or did you bend a bit the requirements set by the OP (might be OK to ignore some requirements, the OP may agree when comparing the price for different options but for a fair comparison, we should have a rough idea about each offering).

Could be my personal opinion but I don't think one can achieve 10 cm accuracy on an assisted steering system (or if that accuracy is reached, it puts more stress on the driver than having no assistance).
Topcons Topnet Global D Signal gives 5cm accuracy, you will need to re aquire your position as drift is inevitable on all but rtk services over time, however this is a one button fix when in field so its no real hassle when you compare it to the cost of RTK, especially if not drilling.
 

Agricision Ltd

New Member
Hi @newholland

My name is Adam and I am from Agricision, the company behind an new award winning, very simple and affordable GPS system. @Simon Robbins knows me because Precision Decisions sell our equipment.

I am just interested if you ever came up with a solution to this?

As several members on here have pointed out you need RTK to have a guaranteed repeatable accuracy year on year with a base station / paid signal. This does however have a significant cost.

That said I think we may have a solution:

For £675 + VAT you can buy the onTrak device. This contains a receiver with GPS & GLONASS + the EGNOS correction.

Just connected the onTrak to the free onTrak iPhone / iPad app. On this app you can then save all the AB lines (controlled traffic lines) for all of your fields.

You can then simply put a stake in the hedge/ fence near the gateway of every field where the first line starts.

Every time you come into the field you just load the field, park by the stake and centre/recalibrate with a touch of a button. This will then allow you to follow pretty much the exact lines as last time.

If you would like to chat more get in touch with us.

Adam
 

Steevo

Member
Location
Gloucestershire
Or even just a single line up the field to run the middle of the tractor up - saves having the "loss" from two tramlines, and you'd also then still have grass and roots under the wheels to carry them better and prevent the wheelmarks getting wet, boggy and rutted.
 
Location
North
I expected Robt ask about your combination of Glonass and Egnos, why do you mention all three (GPS/Glonass/Egnoss)?

Your device seems to do the same thing as e.g. Amazone GPS Switch does (if running on Egnos, no need for that on RTK). A bit different from a typical precision ag screen where you drive to the start of the wayline and press the offset calibration button. Not sure (since I run RTK) but I thought this calibration affects other waylines too. Is the difference mainly the calibration point? Just trying to understand the added value against the cost of the device.
 

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