Clover reintroduction

[Kevtherev]

Very easy to take out with thistlex or mcpa type product but the clover will suffer [emoji24]

 

[Kiwi Pete]

How would our organic comrades deal with a thistle infestation like that? Is there a way without Chems?

Rotavator!!!
Would need a very hungry mob of gall fly and a set of tines on the opico to beat that little lot.
Or plough again and keep cultivating the sucker...?
Not needing to worry about spreading them around, is one positive..

 

[M-J-G]

It's an Internet forum.

It's just as well it's only that.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Anyone know what variety of thistles these are?

Unless these grow into the great big tall ones with a centre stem and very little bushy leaf, I haven't seen the like on the farm before. They're not the little spear, creeping, or bull thistles that grow in places here.

With the field being thistle free before ploughing, I'm getting suspicious that I bought them with the grass seed

I suspect you could be correct Dr Dunc.
We get Californian thistle pop up like that when guys plough and powerharrow their old paddocks, but I've never seen scotchies with that "freshly drilled" look about them. Far too even to be scattered seed, dragged about, IMO of course.
Dodgy lime?

I won't sleep tonight

 

[Ysgythan]

Anyone know what variety of thistles these are?

Unless these grow into the great big tall ones with a centre stem and very little bushy leaf, I haven't seen the like on the farm before. They're not the little spear, creeping, or bull thistles that grow in places here.

With the field being thistle free before ploughing, I'm getting suspicious that I bought them with the grass seed

Have you upset a practical joker?

 

[cotswoldcs]

Thanks for posting the photos - makes decision making easier. With that density and the potential seed bank I wouldn't bother re-introducing clover at all. I'd hit the thistles hard for a few years and forget clover for at least 5 years+. It may be worth stitching in a vigorous hybrid ryegrass if the field looks thin after spraying. Please post a photo of the field after you've sprayed - I'd like to see a field of dying thistles.

 

[exmoor dave]

Headland polo will clean that thistle problem up nicely with a good chance of the clover coming back ok

 

[hendrebc]

Would an atv slug pellet applicator throw out the seed, or is seed too small?

Ive reseeded grass and clover with one. Does work but doesbt theow very far and hard to get the right amount to go out. Had to go over the field twice and was patchy in places

 

[RushesToo]

View attachment 550488

View attachment 550490

Honestly, live with them this dense?

Field was thistle clean before I ploughed it

Where did you buy the grass seed from? <makes note to self to avoid>

Really the only place on the farm that has been previously ploughed?

 

[DrDunc]

Where did you buy the grass seed from? <makes note to self to avoid>

Really the only place on the farm that has been previously ploughed?

I've ploughed and reseeded this field twice in the last 15years. Thistles were fine before this ploughing.

I got every type of thistles but scotch ones. Well I didn't have........

 

[JD-Kid]

MCPA and MCPB mix would clean them up with only low damage to clovers
http://www.dowagro.com/en-nz/newzea...elect?id=a9c62d43-bc76-4d89-add7-e79008f53bed
or a tad stronger
http://www.nufarm.com/NZ/TribalGold
i'm sure looking at the AI's in the mixes it could be in the UK

the frist one used quite a bit and cleaned up a lot of paddocks
weed wiper is another idea that would work if you can get eneff hight diffrence between clovers and weeds

 

[Kiwi Pete]

MCPA and MCPB mix would clean them up with only low damage to clovers
http://www.dowagro.com/en-nz/newzea...elect?id=a9c62d43-bc76-4d89-add7-e79008f53bed
or a tad stronger
http://www.nufarm.com/NZ/TribalGold
i'm sure looking at the AI's in the mixes it could be in the UK

the frist one used quite a bit and cleaned up a lot of paddocks
weed wiper is another idea that would work if you can get eneff hight diffrence between clovers and weeds

Is that what Tropotox+ is?
If so I can vouch it is pretty clover safe especially if you can bear to leave them til the autumn when the clovers' going dormant.
Scotchies shouldn't seed til the second year?

 

[JD-Kid]

yep same as the dowagro one
http://www.nufarm.ca/product/tropotox-plus-herbicide/
it will work in spring knocking larger stuff may not fully kill them but will knock them around
don't quote me but can apply with melted urea or asn so do a fert and weed spray at the same time so 2 jobs at same time

http://technical.nufarm.co.uk/documents/Herbicide/Label/Tropotox_labelinfo.pdf
ummmm looks like only mcpb in the UK one

if i recall (i maybe wrong so check ) think clovers can't convert mcpb so it's very clover safe but a bit weak the adding of mcpa spikes it up a bit and will damage clovers a bit but not kill them
graze hard to remove as much clover leaf as posable before spraying lowers clover damage

 

[hillman]

Any thing that saves clovers over here tends only to stunt and not really kill out the targeted weeds

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Any thing that saves clovers over here tends only to stunt and not really kill out the targeted weeds

Can you get MCPA, or just MCPB?
just had a peek and our Tropotox+ has 375g/l of MCPB, 25g/l MCPA

From all the readings of Dock And Thistle threads on here, I'm still none the wiser what's available to you guys. That stuff ^^^ will give the clovers a singe alright, hence @JD-Kid's good advice to reduce the leaf before spraying if possible.
My clover has ducked down a bit now so it would be safe to spray, a lot of farmers here will spray their ragwort, thistles etc straight after drying off the cows in May.

 

[JD-Kid]

Any thing that saves clovers over here tends only to stunt and not really kill out the targeted weeds

yea i kinda see that in a few posts
even here some products will do a 1/2 arsed job but still let the clovers come away a bit big thing is get some control early on a 70% knock back is still better than none
any thing that that is a real big killer tends to have a huge hammering on clovers
one thing i have done and the organic guys will agree is let the paddock grow forseing the weeds to grow up higher then mow low cutting off all the green topping is a waste of time just leads to thicker weeds in the base
better to get them higher then cut them off
thick areas try to knock them back early to give the paddock a chance

 

[hally]

Despite what's said on here our agronomist says anything clover safe is not much good

 

[Surgery]

Think the technique works a lot better with cattle than sheep, mix a tiny amount of seed with each days feed and a bit off veg oil to help the seeds stick to the feed.

What time of year ? When would it be too late to do this as I have thought about doing what you have done , thanks

 

[banjo]

I use it a lot, thislex f**ks em up big time, then just chuck clover seeds on and give it time. Any things better than thissles, as its taking at least 70% of your fields grass growing capacity, and taking all the goodness you spread on, no brainer!

 

[Old Tip]

What time of year ? When would it be too late to do this as I have thought about doing what you have done , thanks

Depends where you are in the country but before the end of Mid September here. If you rotational graze then a run round with a light harrow soresds the manure covered seeds about then roll or add sheep to tread in and keep the grass in check for a week before the seeds germinate. Works just as well without but you get more concentrated clumps which spread out once established