Coccidiosis in Lambs

[kfpben]

Have just had a FEC done and it came back high in trichostrongylus and cocci.

Vet said yellow drench was fine for the worms. On the cocci I got a quote for vecoxan from MVF- £540 for 350 lambs! Seems a lot.

None are scouring, on fresh pasture, last grazed with cattle. Do I need to spend that much on a cocci drench? Will the levamisole have any effect on the cocci?

Maybe I'm just being tight?

 

[GrannyAching]

What was the cocci count? It has to be very high before you need to treat and most vets would recommend speciation before treating unless the count was enormous.

I had a count of 2.5 million earlier this year. I picked up a problem when I saw one lamb with a really loose stool and collected it to do my own count. I thought there were too many cocci so did a proper sample (10 lambs at random) and took to the vet's for a test. They said at 2.5m - so just treat. None of the sample lambs were especially loose and they didn't especially look like they weren't growing but I could see the difference a week after Baycoxing and yes it's blooming expensive. Next year the Brinnicom buckets will be out from scratch, I followed up with them this year. Took them out a couple of weeks ago and am just monitoring numbers. I think cocci has probably been a rumbling growth problem in my flock each year but I have only really picked it up in the lambs this year because of doing my own FECs with them from a very early age.

I think Baycox has some residual effect.

 

[Nithsdale]

Cocci dose is phenomenally expensive - 5l of Vecoxan is around £500 IIRC.

But, if you've had a problem in the past and had to deal with poor lambs in the autumn. You get them dosed!

Iv never FEC for cocci. I have a known problem and, as guided on the bottle, do lambs at the 6-8 week age. Peace of mind, and the lambs do well thereafter.

 

[Nithsdale]

What was the cocci count? It has to be very high before you need to treat and most vets would recommend speciation before treating unless the count was enormous.

I had a count of 2.5 million earlier this year. I picked up a problem when I saw one lamb with a really loose stool and collected it to do my own count. I thought there were too many cocci so did a proper sample (10 lambs at random) and took to the vet's for a test. They said at 2.5m - so just treat. None of the sample lambs were especially loose and they didn't especially look like they weren't growing but I could see the difference a week after Baycoxing and yes it's blooming expensive. Next year the Brinnicom buckets will be out from scratch, I followed up with them this year. Took them out a couple of weeks ago and am just monitoring numbers. I think cocci has probably been a rumbling growth problem in my flock each year but I have only really picked it up in the lambs this year because of doing my own FECs with them from a very early age.

I think Baycox has some residual effect.

How do you get on with Baycox? What's the dose rate? Is it just an oral drench like Vecoxan?

I really want to stop buying anything Elanco produce...

 

[glensman]

How do you get on with Baycox? What's the dose rate? Is it just an oral drench like Vecoxan?

I really want to stop buying anything Elanco produce...

yes oral drench same as vecoxan, we've been using it for two years now with good results. Supposedly has longer residual effect.

 

[GrannyAching]

How do you get on with Baycox? What's the dose rate? Is it just an oral drench like Vecoxan?

I really want to stop buying anything Elanco produce...

I paid £57.71 for 250 ml (x 2 possibly because I underestimated the weights to begin with - then I weighed them! I can see you can buy it by the litre not sure if I could get 500ml). The dose rate is 0.4ml /kg body weight.

I messed up really because I only have 70 odd lambs born over 6 weeks and I dosed to the heaviest for ease which made it a more expensive job than it needed to be.

I did actually buy a gun becasue I heptavacced them at the same time.(It's called the simcro compact oral drench gun/injector but I can't find it anywhere on their web site - it doesn't have an injector but it does have a metal drench tube. It has probably sat in the local co-op for years but it is supremely accurate at small doses as checked against syringes.)

My lambs were 20kg or under and they needed dosing slowly to get them to drink 8ml but like I said above although they weren't scouring I thought they "looked better" within a week. It was someone on here who said it has a residual effect for 10 days or so I followed up with the DB buckets and will use them next year from the off as I think this may have been a year on year problem - cocci holding back growth but not killing animals - I think these are the best lambs I've managed so far.

Vecoxan only comes in litres - my vet would have dispensed but I think we decided the Baycox worked out cheaper because of the admin charges.

 

[Nithsdale]

I paid £57.71 for 250 ml (x 2 possibly because I underestimated the weights to begin with - then I weighed them! I can see you can buy it by the litre not sure if I could get 500ml). The dose rate is 0.4ml /kg body weight.


Vecoxan only comes in litres - my vet would have dispensed but I think we decided the Baycox worked out cheaper because of the admin charges.

You buy Vecoxan over the counter, don't need to go to the vet. It comes in 2.5l and 5l bottles. A 5l bottle costs £480 (looked up books that's what we paid) and it's 1ml to 2.5kg bodyweight, which is the same as 0.4ml per kg.

Baycox 250ml divided by 8ml dose is 31.25 doses. £57.71/31.25 is roughly £1.80 a dose.

Vecoxan 5l divided by 8ml dose is 625 doses.
£480/625 is roughly 77p a dose.

Unless you can get 1l of Baycox markedly cheaper than you are quoting, that is VERY expensive.

EDIT: If you buy Vecoxan in 2.5l, it is more expensive than the 5l per dose. But still only comes in around £1 a dose @ 8ml per lamb.

 

[Stewartry hill]

Baycox has a 42day withdrawal not so handy for lambs

 

[GrannyAching]

@Nithsdale Farmer I didn't explain very well. Originally, we thought I only needed 250ml and that was when it was cheaper (in total) to use Baycox than get the vet to dispense Vecoxan, then the lamb weight meant I needed a second bottle - I still wouldn't use a litre of Vecoxan. (Although it would maybe keep a year so I could have gone over the counter but I already had the first bottle). With small numbers of sheep, I'm used to having to pay more, sometimes, to get stuff dispensed from the vet rather than having big bottles half used hanging around well and not used by their end date.

In answer to your question how did I get on with Baycox - it did the job. The lambs stayed clean and grew away - I didn't lose any but am not sure I would have done as no scours.

 

[Nithsdale]

@Nithsdale Farmer I didn't explain very well. Originally, we thought I only needed 250ml and that was when it was cheaper (in total) to use Baycox than get the vet to dispense Vecoxan, then the lamb weight meant I needed a second bottle - I still wouldn't use a litre of Vecoxan. (Although it would maybe keep a year so I could have gone over the counter but I already had the first bottle). With small numbers of sheep, I'm used to having to pay more, sometimes, to get stuff dispensed from the vet rather than having big bottles half used hanging around well and not used by their end date.

In answer to your question how did I get on with Baycox - it did the job. The lambs stayed clean and grew away - I didn't lose any but am not sure I would have done as no scours.

No I understood that...

If your local store is also a pharmacist, they can decant Vecoxan and sell you as much or little as you need. It will still be cheaper than Baycox.

 

[GrannyAching]

No I understood that...

If your local store is also a pharmacist, they can decant Vecoxan and sell you as much or little as you need. It will still be cheaper than Baycox.

I will certainly ask that but I doubt if they offer it. I saw one poor couple by a litre of Crovect in there the other day for their one pet sheep. I did suggest they ask the vet to see I they could just get enough but the person behind the counter who I think I also SQP really pushed them to buy.

Looking back over my posts, I can see this wasn't the bed example of communication between me and the vets! Mostly, I think because I was panicking expecting lambs to start dying because it took a week for the test results from the vet after I thought I had significant counts and then a day of not getting a response because the vet had my number written down wrong added to underestimating weights.

However, I will be ready next time and as I said hope the buckets will do the job. From your point of view, I guess you will be sticking with Vecoxan? Do the buckets not appeal?

 

[neilo]

Have just had a FEC done and it came back high in trichostrongylus and cocci.

Vet said yellow drench was fine for the worms. On the cocci I got a quote for vecoxan from MVF- £540 for 350 lambs! Seems a lot.

None are scouring, on fresh pasture, last grazed with cattle. Do I need to spend that much on a cocci drench? Will the levamisole have any effect on the cocci?

Maybe I'm just being tight?

Levamisole (or any other wormer) will have no effect whatsoever on the cocci. And yes, Vecoxan is crazy money but, as posted above, Baycox is even worse, especially for big lambs!

What was the cocci count (& the worm count come to that)? They are always about, and sheep will handle them fine, then develop a natural immunity, if it's only a low challenge. Most cocci species don't cause any bother anyway. Normally when you have a problem, the lambs will start to look hard in the coat, then scour (black scour), then they will pass blood and strain constantly, then they will start dropping like flies. It can develop very rapidly, given the right conditions and naive sheep. Been there many years ago, and certainly don't intend repeating the experience.

 

[Nithsdale]

I will certainly ask that but I doubt if they offer it. I saw one poor couple by a litre of Crovect in there the other day for their one pet sheep. I did suggest they ask the vet to see I they could just get enough but the person behind the counter who I think I also SQP really pushed them to buy.

Looking back over my posts, I can see this wasn't the bed example of communication between me and the vets! Mostly, I think because I was panicking expecting lambs to start dying because it took a week for the test results from the vet after I thought I had significant counts and then a day of not getting a response because the vet had my number written down wrong added to underestimating weights.

However, I will be ready next time and as I said hope the buckets will do the job. From your point of view, I guess you will be sticking with Vecoxan? Do the buckets not appeal?

To sell these products, the person behind the counter must be a SQP but, that does not make them a pharmacist. I'm lucky in that other than using my vets, there 2 local ag stores, 1 of which is also a registered pharmacist. No surprise it's the pharmacy I use more.

Prime example was this May buying white drench. I needed 1.1l of Albex10%. The pharmacy decanted it, and sold me what I needed... the other store told me I could only but 5l, or nothing.

Next time your in, just ask if they are a registered pharmacist.

Iv never used the buckets, but I am aware of them. Do you not need a prescription from your vet to buy them? Our Cocci issue is on 2 fields we take on seasonal let, and not at home. So for the hassle of 1 batch I'm happy just to dose the lambs, but yes going by prices I posted above I will stick with Vecoxan.

 

[GrannyAching]

Prescription is needed for the cocci buckets. I will ask around re the pharmacy. I didn't know that was a thing.

 

[kfpben]

It was only a verbal report the vet gave me over the phone. I think she said it was 2.5 times the 'normal' or 'safe' cocci level. I'll call tomorrow for clarification.

The buckets sound interesting as a preventative in the future. Do they actually work though or are they a sales gimmick?

 

[GrannyAching]

It was only a verbal report the vet gave me over the phone. I think she said it was 2.5 times the 'normal' or 'safe' cocci level. I'll call tomorrow for clarification.

The buckets sound interesting as a preventative in the future. Do they actually work though or are they a sales gimmick?

There are many threads on here already extolling the virtue of the http://www.brinicombe.co.uk/ cocci buckets eg https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/denis-brinicombe-buckets.14470/. I'm not sure we need another one.

 

[Girlfarmer]

Tolracol is the same drug as Baycox and much cheaper if your vets stock it. Think it was about £85/l for us this year. First time we used it instead of Vecoxan and have used buckets in the past. Tolracol has been a huge success story for us and we will continue to use it. One of the main benefits is that over time if you continue to use it, it should reduce the overall cocci burden on your land. With a heavy burden, even with be vecoxan, a second treatment was sometimes needed. Have not had to treat anything this year for a second time.

 

[GrannyAching]

One of the main benefits is that over time if you continue to use it, it should reduce the overall cocci burden on your land.

Do you know how this works? Is this also true of Baycox?

 

[Girlfarmer]

Yes it is the same as Baycox. I've posted this link as I think it explains really well the different treatment options and how they work. Hope that helps.
http://www.nadis.org.uk/bulletins/coccidosis-in-lambs.aspx

 

[Nithsdale]

Do you know how this works? Is this also true of Baycox?

If Baycox has a 'residual effect's for 10days as you mentioned above... it will do the same as this other side is claiming.

It basically means the drug stars in the system for the 10days killing any new Cocci ingested. Basically culling the population.

Vecoxan only kills what's in the lamb, when it's dosed. But, the guidelines for Vecoxan say to do a follow up dose after 4 weeks if the Cocci burden on the land needs controlling.