Commercial swaledales??

[CharcoalWally]

TexX from Lleyns are every bit as good as from Mules (I've ran both) - and sell just as well in the breeding ring.

Texel X Lleyn gimmers topped at £128 at Dalmally. Scotch Mule gimmers topped at £142. And the Texel crosses were damn good gimmers. There were also plenty of other Mule pens at £128+.

 

[Nithsdale]

Texel X Lleyn gimmers topped at £128 at Dalmally. Scotch Mule gimmers topped at £142. And the Texel crosses were damn good gimmers. There were also plenty of other Mule pens at £128+.

My post is talking TexX from Lleyns compared to TexX from mules...

But what did other TexX's make at your sale?

 

[Nithsdale]

I would argue the traits that create a saleable wether are also useful traits to pass on down the female line into the NofE or any other swale cross. Improving growth rates and carcass of 50% of the cross will only breed better females. The poor price of wethers will drag down you average so why not try to improve the returns of wethers I doubt it will reduce the value of the glimmers

Whilst I agree with you, the breed is a female maker (maternal). Wedders are no more than a bye product when the aim is to sell ewe lambs

 

[CharcoalWally]

My post is talking TexX from Lleyns compared to TexX from mules...

But what did other TexX's make at your sale?

Yes, I'm talking about the same thing. They were from Lleyns, not Mules.
There weren't many other Texel X gimmers that i remember.

 

[Nithsdale]

Yes, I'm talking about the same thing. They were from Lleyns, not Mules.
There weren't many other Texel X gimmers that i remember.

So, I'm confused why you quoted me...

Mules, at a Mule sale always sell better than TexX's (of any type) put into that sale... your prices are only fair if you had prices for TexX out of Mules to compare to the ones from the Lleyns at the £128.

 

[CharcoalWally]

So, I'm confused why you quoted me...

Mules, at a Mule sale always sell better than TexX's (of any type) put into that sale... your prices are only fair if you had prices for TexX out of Mules to compare to the ones from the Lleyns at the £128.

Ah, sorry, I've misunderstood your first post. When you talked of Mules, this is what I thought you meant rather than Texel X Mules.

No, no prices on Texel X Mules to compare I'm afraid, and I've no idea what they might trade at these days as I haven't seen any traded for a while, I was surprised enough to see Texel X Lleyns, but they were cracking gimmers. I don't think you'd see many dearer than them in the central regions.

 

[livestock 1]

I had a Romney tup I think it was bought off @Hilly if we’ve got our stories straight for £100. I ran it alongside Texel and Suffolk tups in a batch of 750 mule ewes. It tipped more than it’s fair share of ewes each year. The lambs were good almost all did well were up and good to suck survived outside were healthy and fattened well. They sold ok in the fat but weren’t recognised as very popular in the stores. I rated the lambs better then other folks did

 

[Purli R]

View attachment 840853this is how i like them but its just opinions!

Good bodied ewe that,that"ll put some umph in a mule gimmer,but a ewe like that should be bred pure surely? What age?

 

[Moors Lad]

Whilst I agree with you, the breed is a female maker (maternal). Wedders are no more than a bye product when the aim is to sell ewe lambs

Basically I think 3 of us are nearly in agreement here (could be rare on this forum!). There is no doubt that a better carcase and better growth rates in a swale gimmer would have benefits for the long term future of the mule, and the swale wether really must not be over-looked by swale breeders in the future . Half my lambs come as males and I know for a fact that in the realism of a post brexit world (and CERTAIN subsidy reductions!) every possible avenue of income must be thoroughly pursued.
There`s no reason why that "by-product" can`t be seen as another income stream - that`s certainly where I want to be!

 

[livestock 1]

There has been a shift in fashion where the smaller narrow shouldered tups with light faces were making big money. Some still do but this year the better carcassed tups are generally selling better. Mule gimmer lambs were severely criticised last year for bad confirmation which came back to these small tups. The argument is that these types are bred for the pure job which can produce smaller ewes with tighter skins that can survive better on fells. I don’t think I dare go any further

 

[muleman]

Good bodied ewe that,that"ll put some umph in a mule gimmer,but a ewe like that should be bred pure surely? What age?

I dont keep any pure now,just cross them all,it will be 3 yr old, i bought it off a top breeder who said it wasnt good enough to breed pure off.

 

[Moors Lad]

There has been a shift in fashion where the smaller narrow shouldered tups with light faces were making big money. Some still do but this year the better carcassed tups are generally selling better. Mule gimmer lambs were severely criticised last year for bad confirmation which came back to these small tups. The argument is that these types are bred for the pure job which can produce smaller ewes with tighter skins that can survive better on fells. I don’t think I dare go any further

I think you`re right - the bigger better carcassed tups seemed more in demand for sure - I did wonder if the darker faced ones were more popular too ,maybe this applies to the stronger types anyway as things are at present.

 

[Moors Lad]

i bought it off a top breeder who said it wasnt good enough to breed pure off.

Oh dear...

 

[livestock 1]

I think you`re right - the bigger better carcassed tups seemed more in demand for sure - I did wonder if the darker faced ones were more popular too ,maybe this applies to the stronger types anyway as things are at present.

It’s so easy to upset these fellas by saying the mule lamb has put a lot of value one Swale tups/ewes but where would values be without the mule? Bit like a Leicester tup. What would they be worth without a mule lamb? Not much

 

[Purli R]

I dont keep any pure now,just cross them all,it will be 3 yr old, i bought it off a top breeder who said it wasnt good enough to breed pure off.

Thats his opinion,wrong as it happens

 

[muleman]

Thats his opinion,wrong as it happens

Too good to breed pure,it deserves to be elevated to the crossing job!

 

[firther]

Where's the ideas come from that only the subs keeping people afloat who keep mules.

I can answer that I think, I keep some mules, farm at 1200feet and don't get subs but I make a profit.

i keep ewe lambs back to go in to breeding for future, crossed with a texel. i'm not saying i wouldn't try other crosses in future but it does seem to work for now

 

[Heatgereater]

Whilst I agree with you, the breed is a female maker (maternal). Wedders are no more than a bye product when the aim is to sell ewe lambs

At the moment they are viewed as a bye product but that is only because the ewe lambs are at a premium. If there is a
lesser demand for mules then this premium shrinks leading to reduction in income. By use of recording faster finishing and easier fleshing sheep and compromising on some of the more cosmetic elements any reduction in female premium can begin to be offset by increase in male income.Thus gaining a better reputation for finishing, as has been stated store lamb buyers are put off by the Swales finishing ability, this will help drive store demand for mule wethers.

 

[Nithsdale]

At the moment they are viewed as a bye product but that is only because the ewe lambs are at a premium. If there is a
lesser demand for mules then this premium shrinks leading to reduction in income. By use of recording faster finishing and easier fleshing sheep and compromising on some of the more cosmetic elements any reduction in female premium can begin to be offset by increase in male income.Thus gaining a better reputation for finishing, as has been stated store lamb buyers are put off by the Swales finishing ability, this will help drive store demand for mule wethers.

Absolutely.

But that change in breeding to make wedder sales more viable won't happen over night. It's ridiculous that it hasn't been don't before now already.


Sad reality for many, it is the subs and female sales which keep the swales in the hills. It'll be too late to improve the Swale the night before the subs disappear...

 

[Sandpit Farm]

I think breeding for shoulder is a dangerous game in a hill breed. What's the point? Nobody wants shoulder meat and it has the potential to reduce lambing ease. I know grading is over 3 points (shoulder, loin and gigot) but it shouldn't be. They are all weighted the same but have different values. I think this is where the Swale loses out. If I were an abattoir buyer, I'd love Swales - capable of producing 'R/U' grade loins but I'd get to buy them cheap because they aren't strong in the shoulder and gigot. There has to be an opportunity for an integrated chain on this. Breed Swales with better loins and get a consistent product... forget the shoulder and gigot.

This is where the Swale recording project could come into it's own. An outlet for Swale lambs from breeders using top index Swale tups.