Commingle.......

Steevo

Member
Location
Gloucestershire
the point you are missing is that my wheat, sprayed by a tested sprayer ends up in the SAME product with imported wheat produced where no sprayer test was required

so whats the point ? why should we take on these extra costs when our buyers clearly do not REALLY care ?

Poses an interesting question....

If British producers only produced their product to import standards, would this be considered to be "lowering the standard" of the end product?

The quote in FW as a defence by those in favour of RT "Commingling with imported grain is inevitable when the UK is less than self-sufficient and the supply is variable" is to me the worst form of defence possible. It translates as "We think that these higher standards are incredibly important, but we also realise that the end users have no choice at all but to buy in lower standard imported product to mix it with and because of that, that's fine with us". Those dreaming up/enforcing the standards can't have it both ways!
 

Steevo

Member
Location
Gloucestershire
I’m not familiar with red tractor, mostly sqc and tassc I can’t help believe these assurance schemes don’t have the desired effect with some farmers, they should do unannounced spot checks
a lot of farms don’t give a toss after they’ve had their inspection and passed till the next time,which to me defeats the object
you don’t get Vosa tell you where there working to pull you up

But equally, how many cars are pulled over each year as an unannounced spot check despite having had an MOT?
Would pulling more cars over really improve safety that much to justify the additional cost?

MOTs work as a basic low cost quality standard that applies across the board. Yes a lot of people don't check their car from one MOT to the next, but if you fail to do so, then you are opening yourself up to liability if you do get pulled over for something else and the police have a quick look around your vehicle.

If RT was as simple and easy as an MOT then farmers might well support it. Unlike RT I see enormous value in an annual MOT and it reassures me that most cars on the road are in reasonably good shape. It's also quick, simple, cheap, easy etc. for me to carry out.
 

quattro

Member
Location
scotland
But equally, how many cars are pulled over each year as an unannounced spot check despite having had an MOT?
Would pulling more cars over really improve safety that much to justify the additional cost?

MOTs work as a basic low cost quality standard that applies across the board. Yes a lot of people don't check their car from one MOT to the next, but if you fail to do so, then you are opening yourself up to liability if you do get pulled over for something else and the police have a quick look around your vehicle.

If RT was as simple and easy as an MOT then farmers might well support it. Unlike RT I see enormous value in an annual MOT and it reassures me that most cars on the road are in reasonably good shape. It's also quick, simple, cheap, easy etc. for me to carry out.
Point I’m trying to get over, I think there’s a lot of farmers out there who would and do a excellent job (on all counts) without needing a piece of paper to say so
The ones that don’t, only do for the time it takes to get the certificate
But their produce still goes to the same end user
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Poses an interesting question....

If British producers only produced their product to import standards, would this be considered to be "lowering the standard" of the end product?

The quote in FW as a defence by those in favour of RT "Commingling with imported grain is inevitable when the UK is less than self-sufficient and the supply is variable" is to me the worst form of defence possible. It translates as "We think that these higher standards are incredibly important, but we also realise that the end users have no choice at all but to buy in lower standard imported product to mix it with and because of that, that's fine with us". Those dreaming up/enforcing the standards can't have it both ways!

bakers have no interest in the RT brand and neither do supermarkets and even consumers

20 years failings - you cant make processors use the logo so why keep bang your head against the same wall ?

the answer here is to drop RT and simply assure to the SAME level as is acceptable for imports
 
bakers have no interest in the RT brand and neither do supermarkets and even consumers

20 years failings - you cant make processors use the logo so why keep bang your head against the same wall ?

the answer here is to drop RT and simply assure to the SAME level as is acceptable for imports

So ,then.

What's the plan?

If we want to make a change we need to say what it is we want to do. Does it need a petition to start? If we are co-ordinating a pushback then best way to do it?
 

Steevo

Member
Location
Gloucestershire
bakers have no interest in the RT brand and neither do supermarkets and even consumers

20 years failings - you cant make processors use the logo so why keep bang your head against the same wall ?

the answer here is to drop RT and simply assure to the SAME level as is acceptable for imports

I totally agree. I'm just making the point that their defence of "British farmers want to cut standards" is incorrect, in so far that the person who eats the bread at the end of the day would notice no difference at all.

It would be equivalent to me sorting all the cherries in the cherry cake I'm baking in a line in size order, before putting them straight into the cake mix. It wouldn't make any material difference at all to the end product.

The only way to ensure the quality of the end product is higher, is to stop adding lower quality produce to it. That produce is the imported product, not the UK product.
 

Surgery

Member
Location
Oxford
Wait till covid has been beaten , hopefully ver soon , as pound will strengthen and imports become even more attractive.

I will pass judgement then on red tractor in the face of the inevitable.

I hope I’m wrong
 

willy

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Rutland
People are sick to the back teeth of something and say it, does not mean we are spouting bile.

at the end of the day all we want is to supply a good product the same as anywhere in the world, grain is a world commodity and traded as so and priced as so. So why should we try and make it any more complicated than that.
 
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People are sick to the back teeth of something and say it, does not mean we are spouting bile.

at the end of the day all we want is to supply a good product the same as anywhere in the world, grain is a world commodity and traded as so and priced as so. So why should we try and make it any more complicated than that.

The reason it is more complicated is because we have created an industry that said we needed it.
 

Yale

Member
Livestock Farmer
@Guy Smith

It‘s simple,keep it simple!

We do not need extra layers of inspection standards.

If it does not work in favour of home produce then RT is broken.

If it is seen to be being used against farmers by vested interests and processors then all is lost.:(

Don‘t let the tail wag the dog.

Good luck with your appointment. (y)
 
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Michael S

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Matching Green
Finally I would urge anyone to respond to the current consultation. For what it’s worth my advice is to keep your arguments reasoned and factually correct, don’t get personal and keep your language moderate - that way they are more likely to be listened to.

Thanks

Guy

It might be dangerous admitting to agreeing with Guy but his last paragraph says what I said before in the RT statement thread:

For what it's worth I have completed the RT consultation for crops. It isn't that hard to go through, basically asks you if you agree, partly agree or disagree (as well as n/a) to each proposal and there is space to comment in each section and a space to write what you like at the end. No doubt if you are too shouty/sweary you will be ignored but tell them calmly, clearly and firmly what you think of RT. It might be on their terms how you tell them but at least you will be able to say you told them if they aren't listening here.

It's the same with Defra consultations, if you don't take the time to do them coming on TFF and moaning about them banning urea fertiliser if you haven't done the consultation.
 
The scheme as it stands is indefensible and should be abandoned. If Weetabix or similar want their incoming UK product assured, they can formulate their own standards and offer a bloody premium on the product for it- simple as that. Red Tractor means jack to the consumer and the retailer so what is the point. UK farms are already beholden to environmental health and other regulations that are backed not by a collection of rag-tag assessors with their own individual take on the job, nor with stickers and punitive threats but actual prison sentences if necessary. Furthermore, I see absolutely no reason to have RT for the majority of milk producers when virtually every milk buyer or retailer of the same has their own, much enhanced and far more demanding set of regulations that many of them are more than happy to apply a premium for. They do this because they are deliberately seeking to segment their product from the rest of the marketplace and retail it as being superior to the rest in the minds of consumers.

Given the tangible effect repeated visits and ever more ridiculous and changing requirements have on the mental health of some farmers, I do not see how the continuation of the scheme is justified. The farmer sees no value in it, nor does the retailer or consumer. Bin the fudging scheme and let farmers that want to supply premium market segments decide if the hassle is worth it or not.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 80 42.3%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 34.9%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 15.9%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,294
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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