Committee on Climate Change Report The Future For Farming And Land Use

Goweresque

Member
Location
North Wilts
This really is just so much incorrect guff. Actually, UN estimates point to 400,000 to 600,000 people dying each year due to causes that can be attributed to man-made climate change: https://www.americansecurityproject.org/climate-change-causing-400000-deaths-per-year/

Point me to them then. 500k deaths per year should stand out a bit, where are they? Not theoretical deaths on a piece of paper, actual corpses. The world's population is still rising fairly rapidly, especially in the areas that are supposed to be affected most by climate change, if such amounts of excess deaths were being concentrated in certain areas, we'd notice in actual population changes. But we don't notice because they aren't real deaths. They're just computer model deaths and we all know you can get a computer model to say whatever you want it to, because it only works on the assumptions of the people who create it.

We are not in an interglacial. We are in a Milankovitch cycle (Earth's orbital cycle) which ordinarily would mean us approaching or actually being in an ice age.

We are indeed in an interglacial, because geologically speaking we are still in an Ice Age.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interglacial

Incidentally, you make a big deal of science, how about this chart of the temperature of the Holocene period (the current interglacial period) from Greenland ice cores:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holoc...TemperatureOfGreenland_VintherEtAl2009-en.svg

And before you ask, yes that chart is from a peer reviewed scientific paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19759618

Were there a lot of SUVs around spewing out CO2 8000 years ago? It was a lot hotter than today, over 2 degrees higher. Look at that rapid rise out of the last Ice age as well, about 10 degrees in less than 2000 years. I wonder what caused that. Cow farts? People going on holiday in planes? Too many coal fired power stations?
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
A friend of mine posted a picture of a glacier in New Zealand he visited 10 years ago next to a photo of same glacier this week which he took his family too. It had retreated over a km. that surely can’t just be natural warming, 10 years?
 
A friend of mine posted a picture of a glacier in New Zealand he visited 10 years ago next to a photo of same glacier this week which he took his family too. It had retreated over a km. that surely can’t just be natural warming, 10 years?


Most of Europe used to be under 1km deep of Ice .. all that melted with CO2 at 180ppm.

The sea has risen by 200,000mm. That's 10mm a year for 20,000 years.
 
A friend of mine posted a picture of a glacier in New Zealand he visited 10 years ago next to a photo of same glacier this week which he took his family too. It had retreated over a km. that surely can’t just be natural warming, 10 years?

Why not? The planet is coming out of the last ice age. Before it goes into the next one. And so the cycle continues.
 

essex man

Member
Location
colchester
Hope this of interest
signal-2019-12-03-172752.jpg
 
A friend of mine posted a picture of a glacier in New Zealand he visited 10 years ago next to a photo of same glacier this week which he took his family too. It had retreated over a km. that surely can’t just be natural warming, 10 years?

I thought the same but when you research the nth america ice age event, they now believe the melting of a mile thick ice sheet was rapid, under 100 years. Thats what causes the flooding that created all the cannons and valleys etc. Quiet amazing, so i dont know if there really is enough accurate data to determine whats normal? And even using averages with weather is not really analytically correct as its so dynamic, its more % of variance average.

Ant....
 
Location
Devon
The chief adviser on Climate change is a gentleman who knows his stuff but can be a little abrasive about telling the facts. He was also one of the advisers on the CCC.
I know that whatever seems to be unpalatable to farmers then the NFU gets blamed especially by GUTH but in reality it is impossible to be a climate change denier with so much "science" being put into the subject.
The NFU point has always been that agriculture is in a very strong position to be part of the solution as we farmers manage a large part of the land and as a by product we grow food to feed people.

I believe it is very clear the direction of travel that agriculture and land use will be pushed and the money will go with it for the environment and to reduce or sequestrate Co2.

However unless we have an organisation like the NFU then we will be sold down the river as there is no point us being mandated to do all of this to save the planet when we only emit 1% of the Co2 in the world.

While it would appear that the livestock sector will be the hardest hit by the move to reduce meat consumption the report suggests a further reduction in livestock numbers by 10% in the next 30 years. You have to see that numbers of sheep and cattle have reduced by almost 20% in the last 30 years anyway. However because of genetic improvements and health efficiencies production has also increased. The problem has been that profitability has not!

At this critical time in our history now is NOT the time to knock the NFU as we will need to be seen to have a strong collective stance against all the so called climate change experts who can only talk about saving the planet, whereas most of us have the land and tools to at least do something about it.

With the greatest of respect Frank the last thing the industry needs is farmers of your generation advising the NFU on the way forward on the climate change issue!

And if you really believe as gospel everything that science says is the truth then god help you as for example there would never have been a badger cull as nearly all the science states that cattle are to blame for the TB issue as that is the way the science has been skewed to find just like the climate change research as anyone involved in it are not going to say there isn't a problem as they would not get any more money to carry on the research and thus keep themselves in a job ( just like why the cattle industry has been crippled by TB )..

I have No faith in the NFU on the climate change issue, all the likes of Minette and yourself will do is sign up farmers to very expensive and complicated carbon recording schemes like farm assurance has turned out to be and which farmers cannot recoup from the market place!
 

An Gof

Member
Location
Cornwall
With the greatest of respect Frank the last thing the industry needs is farmers of your generation advising the NFU on the way forward on the climate change issue!

And if you really believe as gospel everything that science says is the truth then god help you as for example there would never have been a badger cull as nearly all the science states that cattle are to blame for the TB issue as that is the way the science has been skewed to find just like the climate change research as anyone involved in it are not going to say there isn't a problem as they would not get any more money to carry on the research and thus keep themselves in a job ( just like why the cattle industry has been crippled by TB )..

I have No faith in the NFU on the climate change issue, all the likes of Minette and yourself will do is sign up farmers to very expensive and complicated carbon recording schemes like farm assurance has turned out to be and which farmers cannot recoup from the market place!

Have you ever met @Frank-the-Wool and spoken with him @gone up the hill ?

I have, and I can assure you he is VERY well respected by his farming peers and a man who has given much to our industry.
Perhaps, if you knew him better, you might reconsider your comments.
 

Scribus

Member
Location
Central Atlantic
Here's a nice list of apocalyptic climate predictions going back over 50 years, all based on 'the science' of the time, none of which were proved by the passage of time to be true:

https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-failed-eco-pocalyptic-predictions

When climate scientists keep making failed predictions, why should we listen to them any more?
A clue may lie in @Robin1966 link to an organisation which calls itself the American Security Project which appears to be putting climate change up as an excuse to go war mongering. Who could doubt the veracity of the American industrial /military complex!
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
With the greatest of respect Frank the last thing the industry needs is farmers of your generation advising the NFU on the way forward on the climate change issue!

And if you really believe as gospel everything that science says is the truth then god help you as for example there would never have been a badger cull as nearly all the science states that cattle are to blame for the TB issue as that is the way the science has been skewed to find just like the climate change research as anyone involved in it are not going to say there isn't a problem as they would not get any more money to carry on the research and thus keep themselves in a job ( just like why the cattle industry has been crippled by TB )..

I have No faith in the NFU on the climate change issue, all the likes of Minette and yourself will do is sign up farmers to very expensive and complicated carbon recording schemes like farm assurance has turned out to be and which farmers cannot recoup from the market place!
There is big opportunities for farmers in all this if they take the fore and don’t just wait for some sort of subsidy to be given to them. Large groups of farmers working together could be very beneficial on this.
 
With the greatest of respect Frank the last thing the industry needs is farmers of your generation advising the NFU on the way forward on the climate change issue!

And if you really believe as gospel everything that science says is the truth then god help you as for example there would never have been a badger cull as nearly all the science states that cattle are to blame for the TB issue as that is the way the science has been skewed to find just like the climate change research as anyone involved in it are not going to say there isn't a problem as they would not get any more money to carry on the research and thus keep themselves in a job ( just like why the cattle industry has been crippled by TB )..

I have No faith in the NFU on the climate change issue, all the likes of Minette and yourself will do is sign up farmers to very expensive and complicated carbon recording schemes like farm assurance has turned out to be and which farmers cannot recoup from the market place!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the bovine TB issue a government balls up of greater than biblical proportions?
Should have been well and truely sorted out over the last 30-40 years.?
 

Scribus

Member
Location
Central Atlantic
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the bovine TB issue a government balls up of greater than biblical proportions?
Should have been well and truely sorted out over the last 30-40 years.?
Perhaps, but like a lot of things it's just not as simplistic as would appear on the surface. Talking to a dairy farmer the other day who 20 odd years ago had awful problems with TB, turned out there was an older cow in the herd that was full of it but never showed any signs or reacted to the test.
 

Frank-the-Wool

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
East Sussex
With the greatest of respect Frank the last thing the industry needs is farmers of your generation advising the NFU on the way forward on the climate change issue!

And if you really believe as gospel everything that science says is the truth then god help you as for example there would never have been a badger cull as nearly all the science states that cattle are to blame for the TB issue as that is the way the science has been skewed to find just like the climate change research as anyone involved in it are not going to say there isn't a problem as they would not get any more money to carry on the research and thus keep themselves in a job ( just like why the cattle industry has been crippled by TB )..

I have No faith in the NFU on the climate change issue, all the likes of Minette and yourself will do is sign up farmers to very expensive and complicated carbon recording schemes like farm assurance has turned out to be and which farmers cannot recoup from the market place!

I do wonder where you get these very odd ideas and you obviously don't read some of these reports or the comments from people who have read them.
I would like to know what you think my generation is?
I am afraid that I would not in any way give advice to the NFU on the way forward on climate change and it might surprise you to know that I am in some ways a climate change denier. However the weather has definitely changed in my lifetime, mostly for the better!! (apart from the rain.)

I am glad you agree that you recognise the work the NFU has done on TB as without them the Badger cull would never have happened. I am not sure that the people who understand the science of TB would agree with your statement about transmission of the disease and how to control it. No country in the world which has had a TB problem has been able to eradicate the disease without controlling it in the wildlife.

I really don't know why you criticise the NFU or its President at a time when there are going to be the greatest changes in agriculture, food production and the environment in any of our lifetimes and this all going to be happening in the next few months. It is the only organisation that we have that is looking after the interests of all farmers, members or not. Personally I believe we are extremely fortunate to have Minette at this difficult time, the profile of agriculture and the NFU has never ever been higher. She has been on the Today program every week since the start of the year, and we are still in January. Apart from during FMD the NFU has never had such a high profile.
With so many new MPs and with a large government majority it is essential we all sing from the same hymn sheet.
 

Scribus

Member
Location
Central Atlantic
Point me to them then. 500k deaths per year should stand out a bit, where are they? Not theoretical deaths on a piece of paper, actual corpses. The world's population is still rising fairly rapidly, especially in the areas that are supposed to be affected most by climate change, if such amounts of excess deaths were being concentrated in certain areas, we'd notice in actual population changes. But we don't notice because they aren't real deaths. They're just computer model deaths and we all know you can get a computer model to say whatever you want it to, because it only works on the assumptions of the people who create it.



We are indeed in an interglacial, because geologically speaking we are still in an Ice Age.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interglacial

Incidentally, you make a big deal of science, how about this chart of the temperature of the Holocene period (the current interglacial period) from Greenland ice cores:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holoc...TemperatureOfGreenland_VintherEtAl2009-en.svg

And before you ask, yes that chart is from a peer reviewed scientific paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19759618

Were there a lot of SUVs around spewing out CO2 8000 years ago? It was a lot hotter than today, over 2 degrees higher. Look at that rapid rise out of the last Ice age as well, about 10 degrees in less than 2000 years. I wonder what caused that. Cow farts? People going on holiday in planes? Too many coal fired power stations?

The mention of computer modelling and lack of experimentation takes us neatly back to the COMEEP report which was sold to the public as a dire warning that diesels were going to slaughter whole swathes of the population overnight. A read of the small print told a slightly different story, it was full of ifs and buts and explained that the whole thing was little more than a review of literature and even some of the experiments cited were open to question, but hey, it served its purpose, diesel was further denigrated and the media had its shock headlines to plaster all over the shop.
 

Gong Farmer

Member
BASIS
Location
S E Glos
Climate scientists aren't really scientists in the true sense, they can't conduct experiments or do any research as such. They can only examine data, which really just makes them statisticians, and feed that into a computer to predict the future.

A reminder that no-one has ever predicted the future accurately or reliably - just look at weather forecasts.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 80 42.1%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 67 35.3%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 15.8%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,294
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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