Compaction breaker root in grassland

[steveR]

I have been spending another evening looking at Vids on DD, CC and Regen Ag et al!

Looking and learning and getting the head around the various concepts and subtleties of the above. Now, a little left field query.... Not an arable one either

I have about 50 acres of PP grassland here, all on land that is/was deemed to be too much of a challenge for arable cropping, mainly wet and cold clays. On a winter like this, the 30 ac of the same soil type confirms that cropping is maybe not the best option!

The land is cattle grazed and/or round bale harvested as either silage or hay. Spring work on the are consists of weeder harrow first, followed by the aerator. If being mown, the flat roll will go first once the land is suitable, IF it is required to take out pock marks. I try to minimise this to avoid compaction. For teh past 8-9 years all grassland work has been done by a lightweight tractor on fat turf tyres to reduce compaction and marking.

Inevitably though, I see compaction on areas where I am turning. The aerator helps as it encourages deep natural cracking, in lines, if we get a good dry summer. However I do have a few areas where the soils do not tend to do this. I have tried subsoiling with limited success, as it is finding the right time to carry out the operation.

So.... Lateral thinking time! I have been intrigued by the ability of some plants like tillage and fodder radish to get down to depth and open up the soils and improve drainage and break compaction. I can't help but think that something like this could be an interesting means of breaking compaction overwinter, and then eat off or flail in the spring. Now whether it could be DD'd into grassland late on and grow...?

Is this baloney, or could something like this work?

 

[tr250]

I use chickory in silage leys as a bit of diversity and for the deep tap root for when we direct drill back into wheat

 

[steveR]

I use chickory in silage leys as a bit of diversity and for the deep tap root for when we direct drill back into wheat

Drilled with the ley at establishment? Wonder if it could be DD in??

 

[tr250]

Drilled with the ley at establishment? Wonder if it could be DD in??

Yes drilled with the ley at establishment. It seems to survive well in a productive ley so I would of thought it would dd in nicely

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Sunflowers, oats, peas, beans, radish?
All of these will outcompete PP most of the year especially during the cool season, and scavenge P+K from well below the existing rootzone.
Seem to withstand slug pressure pretty well too.

The main caveat with this type of approach is that soils high in aluminium (for example NZ volcanic soils that have been hammered with TSP) will not allow good rooting to depth.
Roots hit this chemical "pan" and go sideways, and leafier species like lucerne/chicory can simply wither without good rooting if it goes dry (maybe not much concern where you are)?
Thus, more powerful types of plants like radish and sunflower tend to prove more effective in these situations.
Some parts of NZ have such high levels of heavy metals and aluminium from superphosphate use that their only salvation lies in forestry, the only cure is silica + time, which trees provide.

 

[steveR]

Yes drilled with the ley at establishment. It seems to survive well in a productive ley so I would of thought it would dd in nicely

Gonna have to get the Aitchison here

 

[steveR]

Sunflowers, oats, peas, beans, radish?
All of these will outcompete PP most of the year especially during the cool season, and scavenge P+K from well below the existing rootzone.
Seem to withstand slug pressure pretty well too.

The main caveat with this type of approach is that soils high in aluminium (for example NZ volcanic soils that have been hammered with TSP) will not allow good rooting to depth.
Roots hit this chemical "pan" and go sideways, and leafier species like lucerne/chicory can simply wither without good rooting if it goes dry (maybe not much concern where you are)?
Thus, more powerful types of plants like radish and sunflower tend to prove more effective in these situations.
Some parts of NZ have such high levels of heavy metals and aluminium from superphosphate use that their only salvation lies in forestry, the only cure is silica + time, which trees provide.

If as and when I get a suitable drill, I can see an experiment coming one.... Don't see sunflowers working well here based on my previous experience of them. Fussy seed that needs a good level of warmth. Beans and radish are the likeliest contenders for these clay soils I reckon.

On soil types... Well, we are OK on the volcanic aspect in Shropshire even if the Wrekin (local hill) was originally volcanic zillions of years ago. The glacial lake sorted all the soils about 25k years ago! Never seen much, if any TSP here as the soils don't need it. I have never heard of an aluminium issue here, so assume it's not a problem, as I would hope it would have been identified if a problem!

 

[tr250]

If as and when I get a suitable drill, I can see an experiment coming one.... Don't see sunflowers working well here based on my previous experience of them. Fussy seed that needs a good level of warmth. Beans and radish are the likeliest contenders for these clay soils I reckon.

On soil types... Well, we are OK on the volcanic aspect in Shropshire even if the Wrekin (local hill) was originally volcanic zillions of years ago. The glacial lake sorted all the soils about 25k years ago! Never seen much, if any TSP here as the soils don't need it. I have never heard of an aluminium issue here, so assume it's not a problem, as I would hope it would have been identified if a problem!

https://beefandlamb.ahdb.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/BRP-plus-Using-chicory-and-plantain-in-beef-and-sheep-systems-080316.pdf

 

[steveR]

https://beefandlamb.ahdb.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/BRP-plus-Using-chicory-and-plantain-in-beef-and-sheep-systems-080316.pdf

Thanks, a very interesting read, especially about trhe Chicory agronomy. I have got it as part of an old stewardship mix on some very heavy soil and seems to have done very well over the 8-9 years, but struggling a bit after the wet winter and being underwater!

It doesn't look as if it has much benefit as a conservation as a hay or BB silage crop though... Used to see quitea lot of plantain in some of the PP, but been sprayed out over the years controlling thistle and buttercup invasions!

 

[Michael S]

Just thinking aloud with an idea. The reality is that "tillage radish" roots can't actually penetrate tight ground and the pictures you see of the spectacularly large roots actually demonstrate what good condition the soil is in where they are grown. However I have seen work that demonstrates that the roots of black oats can penetrate compacted soil. Perhaps cutting some into PP and allowing them to get going before grazing would achieve your goal?

 

[Samcowman]

I tried stitching in some chicory with an overseed a few years ago it only took well on bare patches not really in the well established sward.
However I would use it in a new let in the future because the roots were monsters.

 

[steveR]

Just thinking aloud with an idea. The reality is that "tillage radish" roots can't actually penetrate tight ground and the pictures you see of the spectacularly large roots actually demonstrate what good condition the soil is in where they are grown. However I have seen work that demonstrates that the roots of black oats can penetrate compacted soil. Perhaps cutting some into PP and allowing them to get going before grazing would achieve your goal?

I see where you are coming from! Bit of a chicken and egg thing....

I would not expect the massive 2ft long roots into the ground to be a realistic outcome on our heavy clay and in PP. I was thinking more of the long thin taproot extensions.

I'll take a look at the Black Oats...

 

[Bury the Trash]

I have been spending another evening looking at Vids on DD, CC and Regen Ag et al!

Looking and learning and getting the head around the various concepts and subtleties of the above. Now, a little left field query.... Not an arable one either

I have about 50 acres of PP grassland here, all on land that is/was deemed to be too much of a challenge for arable cropping, mainly wet and cold clays. On a winter like this, the 30 ac of the same soil type confirms that cropping is maybe not the best option!

The land is cattle grazed and/or round bale harvested as either silage or hay. Spring work on the are consists of weeder harrow first, followed by the aerator. If being mown, the flat roll will go first once the land is suitable, IF it is required to take out pock marks. I try to minimise this to avoid compaction. For teh past 8-9 years all grassland work has been done by a lightweight tractor on fat turf tyres to reduce compaction and marking.

Inevitably though, I see compaction on areas where I am turning. The aerator helps as it encourages deep natural cracking, in lines, if we get a good dry summer. However I do have a few areas where the soils do not tend to do this. I have tried subsoiling with limited success, as it is finding the right time to carry out the operation.

So.... Lateral thinking time! I have been intrigued by the ability of some plants like tillage and fodder radish to get down to depth and open up the soils and improve drainage and break compaction. I can't help but think that something like this could be an interesting means of breaking compaction overwinter, and then eat off or flail in the spring. Now whether it could be DD'd into grassland late on and grow...?

Is this baloney, or could something like this work?

Crack problem in your soil ? , oh dear sound s to me like you need a man to come round and look into it...?






Seriously tho I thought it was something to do with Magnesium ...cant remember whether a shortage or too much, ......although I seem to remember that it was a bad nutrient thing, like being a bit too acid or something, personally I would prefer the cracks than everything being in perfect balance .....cant beat a nice dry summer after a long wet old time, well for that purpose anyway.
Only other thing I suppose tho is that lime / gypsum whacked on would help open the structure of the clay....

 

[steveR]

... personally I would prefer the cracks than everything being in perfect balance .....cant beat a nice dry summer after a long wet old time, well for that purpose anyway.

Only other thing I suppose tho is that lime / gypsum whacked on would help open the structure of the clay....

Agree, a good hot dry summer is no problem at all on this type of soil, grass keeps on going!

 

[steveR]

I tried stitching in some chicory with an overseed a few years ago it only took well on bare patches not really in the well established sward.
However I would use it in a new let in the future because the roots were monsters.

Maybe needing the "chemical topping" some proponents of dd overseeding suggest? 1-200ml of Roundup as I recall... enough to knock back the grass a bit and allow the new seeds to get going.