Compaction can sort itself !

Tight at least 6 inches down. Went further down than I was expecting. If it was only a few inches could happily put a set of discs over it.

Recent rain have caused a lot of OSR volunteers to appear. They will definitely help condition the good areas, but I don't think they'll sort the bad areas out in time.

Haven't we got 2 months between now and wheat drilling? Any pictures of this tight soil? Don't discount the benefits of the old osr roots between now and then as well as a bit of regrowth.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
1500626371696.jpg

Hope everyone's finished their squirrel sandwiches..
This brew has been in water for almost two months- middle of winter has slowed decomposition down greatly- two weeks in summer and it would be starting to fizz. Hence my drums are only half full, but I had the last batch fizz over so didn't want to waste it this time.
1500628166398.jpg

I can push a fibreglass rod down 18 to 24inches with one hand, so I definitely don't have a pan, just really really thick thatch and surface compaction from 12 years of no plough and just liquid seaweed- huge worm counts here.
Now I just want one of you cropping guys to grab the ball and run with it!

@Kevtherev
@scholland
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
View attachment 553052
Hope everyone's finished their squirrel sandwiches..
This brew has been in water for almost two months- middle of winter has slowed decomposition down greatly- two weeks in summer and it would be starting to fizz. Hence my drums are only half full, but I had the last batch fizz over so didn't want to waste it this time.
View attachment 553066
I can push a fibreglass rod down 18 to 24inches with one hand, so I definitely don't have a pan, just really really thick thatch and surface compaction from 12 years of no plough and just liquid seaweed- huge worm counts here.
Now I just want one of you cropping guys to grab the ball and run with it!

@Kevtherev
@scholland

thats is a stunning soil structure !
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
I cant believe that is a clay soil. Looks *really* nice.
I wish I could take credit for making it so...
Nature did all that. And good stewardship.
I will sneak across the boundary tomorrow and show you what can happen to it under more "abusive" conditions i.e. cultivation, outwintering cattle, and urea... it sure doesn't look like mine! :eek:
 

Farmer Roy

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
NSW, Newstralya
that's what discussion forums exist for !

It's dark now & I have to pay more attention to planter units ( due to what I'm about to talk about ) so I'll be brief.
One real problem we have here after even a few yrs of zero till is that are soils become so soft & fluffy & retain moisture, that when planting with disc units we have problems with the discs bulldozing & not turning, the ground just isn't firm enough to drive the disc. Now it's dark & the cold night air has come in, the discs are picking up a bit of mud, the scrapers & gauge wheels are working that bit harder, and everything stops turning. Drive across a roadway or some compacted ground things start turning again.
So many of our more fragile soils have been destroyed & pulverised by the plough. No structure. No organic matter. No soil life. Set like cement.
Our soils ( here, black soil plains ) are very forgiving to all sorts of abuse - it's amazing the difference a good drought followed by a flood make to these self mulching clays :). But they are very susceptible to traffic & compaction, hence the development of CTF here.
Bare in mind with compaction, the worst damage occurs at depth, under the tractor, it is egg shaped & the wheels cause it to bulge up under the tractor ( this isn't visible from the surface, but it's what it does.) There has been a hell of a lot of research into compaction by various organisations on various soil types in Australia
 

Farmer Roy

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
NSW, Newstralya
I will also add that as well as my own farm, I do contract planting work for other people. Big variety of crops, management techniques & soil types. So, my experience isn't just on my own little patch, but quite extensive.
I'll talk more about our glorious self mulching clays later, but I think more interesting is the improvement in tired worn out over cultivated lighter soils that change from near useless to being rich & productive, by minimising cultivation, adding living roots, increasing ground cover & encouraging soil biology. Major results may take 10 yrs or more, but there are some fascinating instant improvements from for eg just leaving a thick mat of straw lying flat on the ground.
We value our straw highly, not for baling or bedding or selling, but as groundcover
 

Farmer Roy

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
NSW, Newstralya
I don't know if Alan Savory has much of a following in the U.K., but he is a bit of a guru for holistic land management.
His description of different environments being either "brittle" or "non brittle" or somewhere along the scale from either extreme was a revelation to me.
He is also very good at explaining the importance of not just organic matter, but living biology, fungi, bacteria, roots etc as well as the obvious such as worms
 

franklin

New Member
I'll show you some of our clay soils

I will show you some of mine - we are lifting some tramlines which got a bit of a beating in OSR, and also some post-bale chasers leaving the field but otherwise the fields havent been moved more than 2" since 2007 - I'd love to think I could reduce my establishement cost; keep yields up; and improve water infiltration without using any metal.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
we have access to a flat roll with similar tines welded on, I presume you find dry sub soil and surface gets best results?
It really depends what you want to achieve with this one, as you can put about 10° of "cut" on the gangs and really 'disc it up' or less cut means less disturbance.
I have gone onto really wet areas with this just to stop it going stinky after some winter beet with dairy cows on!
But yes ideally pretty dry, the tines have quite a lean and twist so they do much more at depth than at the surface- I can slip a smartphone down the slot and wiggle it. It weighs about 1620 kg as is but quite easy to pull without much angle on.

I'm planning on putting a row of S tines on with sweep points, and then pickup tines off a baler, to make a "poor man's DD" hence the seeder unit.
 

Farmer Roy

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
NSW, Newstralya
I won't even pretend I know how to maintain good structure in a full-on arable system.
I'm just a poor livestock farmer with a stinky tractor !! :D
CTF
Zero Till
Full ground cover / retention of crop residues ( NO BALING OF STRAW )
A diverse crop rotation including grasses, broadleaves, legumes, cool season plants, warm season plants
Cover crops

(y)
 
Last edited:

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
CTF
Zero Till
Full ground cover / retention of crop residues ( no baling of straw )
A diverse crop rotation including grasses, broadleaves, legumes, cool season plants, warm season plants
Cover crops

(y)
When you say, diverse crop rotation, what length of rotation?
Does the length of time in pasture "make" the soil because of livestock repeatedly recycling, or do you feel it doesn't matter so much with good cover crops (and the other points you mentioned)?
Do ruminants have a place in soil regeneration?
I ask, because Australia has it all..
 

Farmer Roy

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
NSW, Newstralya
I am 100% cropping, by diverse rotation I mean following one crop with a different plant type. I am only playing with cover crops at the moment so cant really comment on them, but as an example of my rotation at the moment & aiming for a bit of diversity - cotton picked this year was planted to chickpeas last week which will be planted to durum wheat next winter, which will have mung beans or cowpeas sown straight after harvest. Trying to vary plant & root types.

Although I don't yet know how to get around the logistical & practical issues, ideally I would like to introduce ruminants in a high density 1 or 2 day cell grazing style. I believe their activity ( trying to mimic the vast grazing herds of Africa & North America ) would be highly beneficial to the soil biology & breaking down of crop residues.

Gabe Brown & others make it work in Dakota, others in Kansas do. We are a very different environment, but surely we can learn & adapt something
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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