complicated toxo question

spin cycle

Member
Location
north norfolk
SO....long story,,,,as always :rolleyes:

about a month ago i read an agriland story on here that toxo is present but undetected on 66 % of farms......that set me thinking back to last lambing.....was lamb% down a little?,,,did we have more weak lambs than we should?.....i contacted the vet viz toxovax.....they were happy to supply but time was obviously tight....apparently it only gets made in batches becuase it only has a shelf life of 10 days.....back then i coulda ordered for delivery today.....of course we'd then have to wait at least 3 weeks before tupping,,,in the meantime a strange cat has been about.....i stuck my head in the sand cos i was busy with other stuff:bag:...i hoped the cat was 'owned neuted etc':bag:.....then this morning i found this:banghead:
P1040903.JPG


now i'm wondering what to do?,,,,,,delay tupping and vaccinate?,,....assuming i can get vaccine:rolleyes:,,,,thing is at what stage do ewes get infected...pre tupping or once in lamb?.....would i just be 'shutting the stable door' by vaccinating now?
 
Toxo here has always been connected to cats being in haybarns pissing on the hay. Now someone will come along in a minute and say it’s not the pee it’s the shyte but either way when you could smell cat pee on hay we ended up with it. Now we make everything wrapped. Also the abortions were always brown and mucky and near up to time I fully understand you concerns but also think you might be giving yourself a hard time over this
 
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neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Toxo here has always been connected to cats being in haybarns pissing on the hay. Now someone will come along in a minute and say it’s not the pee it’s the shyte but either way when you could smell cat pee on hay we ended up with it. Now we make everything wrapped. Also the abortions were always brown and mucky and near up to time I fully understand you concerns but also think you might be giving yourself a hard time over this

I’ll jump first…. Yes, it’s the shyte and not the pee. Supposedly 1g of infected cat poo contains enough Toxo to infect all the sheep in the UK (or something like that). Of course, cats will often pee where they, or another cat, poos.
That infected poo could be in the fodder, in the pile of grain you feed the sheep pre-lambing, or in a sample of grain that goes into a feed mill and processed into sheep cake to be sent across the country.

Cats, like sheep, will become immune to Toxo in time, so it’s only juvenile cats that are a risk…… like the one in @spin cycle ’s photo. :nailbiting: Adults are not an issue.

That said, over hundreds of years, plenty of sheep have lambed on farms that have cats running all over them, without any issues at all with Toxoplasmosis.
It would certainly be sensible insurance to vaccinate them, but I wouldn’t lose too much sleep over it. Anyway, it would surely be difficult for anyone to time the vaccination unless he knows when the ewes are getting tupped….. :whistle: (sorry spin)
 

Humble Village Farmer

Member
BASE UK Member
I vaccinated ewe lambs one time on the basis that a couple of extra lambs would pay for the vaccine. The lambing rate wasn't that spectacular so I never did it again.

I thought sheep could only get it once and unlike toxo, they don't have to be pregnant to get it.
 

Electricfencer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cotswolds
Do you vaccinate against it annually? Or are they to do only once?
I do my yearlings for my own sheep that are wintered on beet around the edge of a big town (20k people ish) I always worry that there might be a load of cat sh!t out there. I have another flock that I don’t toxo but do Enzo because we have had a problem in the past. But should prob do both for both flocks really.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Do you vaccinate against it annually? Or are they to do only once?

Label recc is to do every four years. Most people only do it before their first tupping though, as was the old recc.


I do my yearlings for my own sheep that are wintered on beet around the edge of a big town (20k people ish) I always worry that there might be a load of cat sh!t out there. I have another flock that I don’t toxo but do Enzo because we have had a problem in the past. But should prob do both for both flocks really.

Same here. I’ve always farmed near houses, with cats that I have no control over.
Haven’t done Enzo for a good few years, but started doing replacements again this year after neighbour had an outbreak in bought in ewes last year. It only takes a bit of aborted material carried over by wildlife and dropped into a naive flock, as I know from bitter experience years ago.
 

spin cycle

Member
Location
north norfolk
If your flock already has it then a high proportion of your sheep would be immune. It would be your 1st time lambers that would be your biggest issue.

that thought occurred to me this afternoon (y)

i was quoted £6/dose...TBH i could justify it thru not having the worry alone:)

@neilo .....don't be sorry ...the thought that some of mine might already be preggie did occur to me:bag:

i did wonder whether to blood test the ewes for 'history' as @Farmer Fin alluded to....but it's time ...and money :rolleyes:
 

Farmer Fin

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
that thought occurred to me this afternoon (y)

i was quoted £6/dose...TBH i could justify it thru not having the worry alone:)

@neilo .....don't be sorry ...the thought that some of mine might already be preggie did occur to me:bag:

i did wonder whether to blood test the ewes for 'history' as @Farmer Fin alluded to....but it's time ...and money :rolleyes:
MSD do a flock check where they cover the lab fees of 6 ewes I think. Not sure if the scheme has closed for the year, they pay for Enzo and Toxo.
 

z.man

Member
Location
central scotland
Yes it’s expensive and time consuming to administer ....but an abortion storm at lambing time takes some swallowing.....must be the very definition of depressing, chances are you’ll be fine this year and maybe for the next 10 years but sometime it will come along and pee all over your lambing put the rams out as usual this year cross your fingers and get organised for next year 👍

Ps have actually vaccinated ewe hoggs with both Toxo and Enzo that turned out to be inlamb at the time of vaccination now am sure the label say’s the world would end if this occurred......but it didn’t, in fact nothing happened apart from a few healthy baby lambs arrived
 

Ysgythan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Ammanford
SO....long story,,,,as always :rolleyes:

about a month ago i read an agriland story on here that toxo is present but undetected on 66 % of farms......that set me thinking back to last lambing.....was lamb% down a little?,,,did we have more weak lambs than we should?.....i contacted the vet viz toxovax.....they were happy to supply but time was obviously tight....apparently it only gets made in batches becuase it only has a shelf life of 10 days.....back then i coulda ordered for delivery today.....of course we'd then have to wait at least 3 weeks before tupping,,,in the meantime a strange cat has been about.....i stuck my head in the sand cos i was busy with other stuff:bag:...i hoped the cat was 'owned neuted etc':bag:.....then this morning i found this:banghead:View attachment 992254

now i'm wondering what to do?,,,,,,delay tupping and vaccinate?,,....assuming i can get vaccine:rolleyes:,,,,thing is at what stage do ewes get infected...pre tupping or once in lamb?.....would i just be 'shutting the stable door' by vaccinating now?
Delay tupping and vaccinate. Late lamb better than no lamb
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Yes it’s expensive and time consuming to administer ....but an abortion storm at lambing time takes some swallowing.....must be the very definition of depressing, chances are you’ll be fine this year and maybe for the next 10 years but sometime it will come along and pee all over your lambing put the rams out as usual this year cross your fingers and get organised for next year 👍

Ps have actually vaccinated ewe hoggs with both Toxo and Enzo that turned out to be inlamb at the time of vaccination now am sure the label say’s the world would end if this occurred......but it didn’t, in fact nothing happened apart from a few healthy baby lambs arrived

Conversely, I’ve heard of folks that have a complete failure of an expensive AI day, as they thought the 3 week interval was a bit too long….

Certainly not a risk I’d (knowingly) take.
 

Jerry

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Devon
I tend to relay a little on herd immunity for the ewe lambs.

I jab all dry shearlings ahead of topping but don’t jab ewe lambs.

They go into the ram with aged ewes, most of which would have been jabbed as shearlings.

If they produce a lamb that’s fine and I see it as a bonus. Most do.

They don’t get jabbed as a shearling and don’t seem to be an issue.
 

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