Compost?

[Hobbit]

Hi all.
I keep seeing compost and its benefits poping up in threads and thought it should be talked about. I would be really intrested to hear people's options, experiences and methods. There is a lot of information coming from the other side of the Atlantic but UK sources are a bit more limited. Four years ago I would have dismissed this way of agriculture but a change in farming practice and management at home has opened my eyes. The change was purely cost driven at the time but soil improvement has now over taken that. The knowledge and experience that the members of this forum have is really respectable has become a guild for a more sustainable future. Many thanks

Will

 

[shakerator]

Will

There lots lots of info via WRAP if you contact them about compost trials

The main question is what are the feedstocks, and how are they managed pre and post pas100 "active management phase"

http://www.wrap.org.uk/category/materials-and-products/compost

 

[Hobbit]

Will

There lots lots of info via WRAP if you contact them about compost trials

The main question is what are the feedstocks, and how are they managed pre and post pas100 "active management phase"

http://www.wrap.org.uk/category/materials-and-products/compost

Thank you for the link Shakerator. I will contact Wrap. What types of feed do people use? Is it mainly manure based and if so why compost it when it could be spread as it is?

 

[shakerator]

Thank you for the link Shakerator. I will contact Wrap. What types of feed do people use? Is it mainly manure based and if so why compost it when it could be spread as it is?

PAS100 is green waste, so amenity trimmings garden waste etc

Low in available N, high in carbon. Good to mix with higher ammonia manures in order to "trap/ adsorb" that nitrogen which otherwise gases off or leaches away. Composting stabilises nutrients, ie adding carbon compounds locks them up and they are released later during biological processes at the root interface after spreading, big difference between FYM and layers muck!

 

[Hobbit]

This should be called compost for beginners! Would the composting process destroy any seeds that are in the green waste or manure. ie; the intensive beef unit down the road beds up on wood chips and feeds a large amount of barley straw from my neighbour who can grow really good wild oats. For this reason I can't make use of this local supply.

 

[shakerator]

This should be called compost for beginners! Would the composting process destroy any seeds that are in the green waste or manure. ie; the intensive beef unit down the road beds up on wood chips and feeds a large amount of barley straw from my neighbour who can grow really good wild oats. For this reason I can't make use of this local supply.

Your worried about wild oats?
Composting should destroy weed seeds the PAS100 does tests but I wouldn't not use compost due to weed concerns. Never seen blackgrass worse from compost

 

[Simon C]

This should be called compost for beginners! Would the composting process destroy any seeds that are in the green waste or manure. ie; the intensive beef unit down the road beds up on wood chips and feeds a large amount of barley straw from my neighbour who can grow really good wild oats. For this reason I can't make use of this local supply.

Far easier to compost a wild oat seed than a piece of wood chip, the seeds will have disappeared long before the wood starts decomposing. The heat has nothing to do with seed sterilisation except in the small mind of a man with a clip board.

 

[Hobbit]

Far easier to compost a wild oat seed than a piece of wood chip, the seeds will have disappeared long before the wood starts decomposing. The heat has nothing to do with seed sterilisation except in the small mind of a man with a clip board.

Are wood chips best avoided or do they just prolong the process? A lot are used around here for bedding.

 

[Clive]

from my notes at Dr Elaine Ingham's seminar last year her recipe for compost which has little in common with green waste or UK commercial compost, this is the kind of stuff you need to make if using compost teas etc

Thermal Compost - by volume

10% high n stuff manure (clean and fresh ) 10.:1 c/n

30% green material 30.1

60% woods / straw 60:1

Should get to 55c within 3 days

Turn at 70 - 75 max - DO NOT GET HOTTER THAN THIS

Drop 10-20 deg

Day latter back to 70-75

Turn again

Drop again

2 days back up to temp

Drop again

Should be 3 times turned total

Now doesn't get up to temp and by day 21 should be back to ambient coditions

 

[Hobbit]

We have HLS margins which we cut and remove yearly. The good stuff goes for hay off farm, the poorer cuttings are just bailed and burnt which is a real waste. I look into the farm next door and see round bail silage from 3 years ago just rotting!
Would this do for the green material?

 

[Clive]

We have HLS margins which we cut and remove yearly. The good stuff goes for hay off farm, the poorer cuttings are just bailed and burnt which is a real waste. I look into the farm next door and see round bail silage from 3 years ago just rotting!
Would this do for the green material?

Perfect I would think

 

[Daniel]

When are you applying the compost? Before Autumn sown crops, on top of Autumn sown crops in the spring or before spring crops?

We have abundant layers manure and straw, and about 60ac of grass down to poultry that I always have to flog at cost as silage to a local beef farmer each summer. Somewhere I have the chopper bar to go in our Class roundbaler as well so could make silage pre-chopped for mixing? Having to wrap the grass to wait until you wanted to make compost would be a bit pricey though?

Would all the effort benefit a Fen soil that is already high in organic matter and N though?

 

[Clive]

When are you applying the compost? Before Autumn sown crops, on top of Autumn sown crops in the spring or before spring crops?

We have abundant layers manure and straw, and about 60ac of grass down to poultry that I always have to flog at cost as silage to a local beef farmer each summer. Somewhere I have the chopper bar to go in our Class roundbaler as well so could make silage pre-chopped for mixing? Having to wrap the grass to wait until you wanted to make compost would be a bit pricey though?

Would all the effort benefit a Fen soil that is already high in organic matter and N though?

If your making proper compost vs just facilitating waste disposal then it would be worthwhile I think especially if your grass currently brings you no financial benifit

Application timeline doesn't really matter, make it fit in your system. I try and keep any compost and lime / fibrophos applications for Spring ahead of Spring cropping simply to ease Autumn logistics

 

[shakerator]

The heat has nothing to do with seed sterilisation except in the small mind of a man with a clip board.

??

obviously other factors at play too but i thought heat was a biggie

 

[JCMaloney]

PAS100 is green waste, so amenity trimmings garden waste etc

Low in available N, high in carbon. Good to mix with higher ammonia manures in order to "trap/ adsorb" that nitrogen which otherwise gases off or leaches away. Composting stabilises nutrients, ie adding carbon compounds locks them up and they are released later during biological processes at the root interface after spreading, big difference between FYM and layers muck!

Those "amenity trimmings" also contain lovely things like discarded needles, plastics and various other non degradables. Whilst the limit of non degradable maybe something like 0.01% it can soon leave fields looking like a mini-landfill site. And the thing with non degradables is the contamination is cumulative. I`ll dig out some pictures when I get home.

 

[shakerator]

Those "amenity trimmings" also contain lovely things like discarded needles, plastics and various other non degradables. Whilst the limit of non degradable maybe something like 0.01% it can soon leave fields looking like a mini-landfill site. And the thing with non degradables is the contamination is cumulative. I`ll dig out some pictures when I get home.

some worse than others!
i see what your saying but it doesnt bother me too much aesthetically

suprising how quickly some things degrade when left on top

what rates are you applying?

 

[JCMaloney]

@shakerator I`m not applying any .........but other reasons find me wandering around fields finding some of the stuff. I`ve seen everything from PCB`s to needles, plastic of various ilk`s etc.
Its far from pretty & appears far from "green" however I`ll temper that with there being a very wide quality range. Some of the more dubious processors/suppliers often seem to mysteriously catch fire about a week after the Environment Agency clobber them with big fines.

 

[JCMaloney]

As promised.... now I`m not here to apportion blame to either producers or users, I know it makes sense to compost land for all the reasons above but there is a likelihood that users don`t/can`t see what else is being spread & buried. As a trial I marked out a 20 metre square & "litter picked" it.

 

[Hobbit]

As promised.... now I`m not here to apportion blame to either producers or users, I know it makes sense to compost land for all the reasons above but there is a likelihood that users don`t/can`t see what else is being spread & buried. As a trial I marked out a 20 metre square & "litter picked" it.
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I take it that all that has been brought in via aminaty waste in the compost? There was a country file article back in the spring featuring a chap not far away from me who has the same problem from brought compost. He now has healthy soil and a good mess.

 

[JCMaloney]

Its a bit of a mix, some amenity compost and some of the mashed MDF that was used for cattle bedding. I think the powers that be have stopped the use of mashed MDF because of carcinogens in the glues etc.
I guess @360farmsupport would be the resident expert on the stuff.