Concerned about Red Tractor collapse.

[neilo]

I agree that the gold plating has got out of hand.
Like it or not we are food producers and there will always have to be some level of checks on compliance with the basic legal requirements, enforced by somebody.
As I see it that can be through multi agency visits, or far better through one annual fairly benign audit run by our own industry, that is fairly easy to live with.
Just saying, as @snarling bee has done already, that we ought to be careful what we wish for, and not chuck the baby out with the bathwater.

Trading Standards & DEFRA (or RPW, etc) already do random checks to make sure we are all keeping within legislative standards. Do we need more than that?

 

[David.]

If the required standards are those required by uk legislation, with none of the extra tosh that’s been rolled out by RT over recent years, is that really an issue (other than when they pick a day when you’re flat out with something)?

Which they always will, Sod's Law, and I won't be alone in not being entirely comfortable with random unannounced visits, I'll bet...

 

[MrNoo]

There is not even as big a link with the NFU mutual as some seem to think.

How about the £5 million a year link, as my insurance bod told me when I asked him just last week......??

 

[An Gof]

If they don't soon realise that there members detest RT, they will have a huge reduction of members.

Start representing your members NFU !!

It’s seems an uphill task to get real change. The President is absolutely wedded to everything RT and will not countenance any rebellion against the scheme.

I recently asked the question as to how many SW members had quit membership because of NFU policy towards RT. The answer I was given was 1
Far be it for me to suggest that I wasn’t being given the whole truth but I did find it very surprising it was that low.
How many TFF members on here that were also NFU members in the SW region have actually terminated their membership this year and given RT as the reason?

 

[Salopian_Will]

A lot of the anti-red tractor noise on this forum is related solely to combinable crops (albeit not exclusively).

For those sectors one or two steps above in the ‘food chain’ producing meat and dairy etc I feel the red tractor provides a good, defendable platform to work from even if end users insist on their own to audits to ensure standards are met. That is not to say there is not room for improvement.

Without red tractor I would be very concerned about what might come in its place - for Instance our produce is on the shelves of probably 5 supermarkets and I would not want to be meeting the criteria of each of their own rules. This was one of the main rationales for red tractor in the first place and that has not gone away.

While change is often welcomed and reform probably needed, we should be careful not to shoot ourselves in the the foot.

 

[MrNoo]

The man from the Mutual said he was getting an awful lot of "push back" over RT and the NFU despite link or lack of links (depending who you work for). I had left it too late for quotes but explained once I get some in that I will be moving, he was very understanding of my reasons for leaving and said he expected more to follow. Fortunately there is no penalty for early cancellation.

 

[neilo]

A lot of the anti-red tractor noise on this forum is related solely to combinable crops (albeit not exclusively).

For those sectors one or two steps above in the ‘food chain’ producing meat and dairy etc I feel the red tractor provides a good, defendable platform to work from even if end users insist on their own to audits to ensure standards are met. That is not to say there is not room for improvement.

Without red tractor I would be very concerned about what might come in its place - for Instance our produce is on the shelves of probably 5 supermarkets and I would not want to be meeting the criteria of each of their own rules. This was one of the main rationales for red tractor in the first place and that has not gone away.

While change is often welcomed and reform probably needed, we should be careful not to shoot ourselves in the the foot.

But the supermarkets already do their own audits on supplying farms, picked at random by the processors. I’ve been audited for M&S and Tesco, both in addition to FA, and despite never knowingly having sent a lamb to M&S.

However, when they are short on supply, they are happily selling beef & lamb from those abattoirs, sourced from wherever sends them in, or even bought from the live mart.
Surely that says how much they, and their customers, really value FA?

 

[Salopian_Will]

But the supermarkets already do their own audits on supplying farms, picked at random by the processors. I’ve been audited for M&S and Tesco, both in addition to FA, and despite never knowingly having sent a lamb to M&S.

However, when they are short on supply, they are happily selling beef & lamb from those abattoirs, sourced from wherever sends them in, or even bought from the live mart.
Surely that says how much they, and their customers, really value FA?

Yes we get audited by Tesco on top etc but without RT I would be concerned about the baseline requirement.

I have yet to see a supermarket sell anything British which did not carry the red tractor but concede that they are clearly happy selling non British non red tractor stuff. Conversely there are the non-British, red tractor assured vegetables…

like I say not perfect but a basis to work from.

 

[andybk]

A lot of the anti-red tractor noise on this forum is related solely to combinable crops (albeit not exclusively).

For those sectors one or two steps above in the ‘food chain’ producing meat and dairy etc I feel the red tractor provides a good, defendable platform to work from even if end users insist on their own to audits to ensure standards are met. That is not to say there is not room for improvement.

Without red tractor I would be very concerned about what might come in its place - for Instance our produce is on the shelves of probably 5 supermarkets and I would not want to be meeting the criteria of each of their own rules. This was one of the main rationales for red tractor in the first place and that has not gone away.

While change is often welcomed and reform probably needed, we should be careful not to shoot ourselves in the the foot.

thats fair enough as long as the supermarkets clamp right down on larry goodman and co , he got away with selling horse meat ffs, what does that say about his procurement strategy, he didnt even know the meat he was selling let alone if it was full of banned substances or if the breeders had a hole in a window , yet larry still got away with loopholes ,putting the tractor and flag on imported produce with minimal assurance (if any) .and he was still putting meat on all the supermarket shelves after the scandal,
at the end of the day price is king , well if thats the game you dont get uk assurance for free , yet many are jumping though hoops for RT and paying for the privilege if they want to sell deadweight

 

[Salopian_Will]

thats fair enough as long as the supermarkets clamp right down on larry goodman and co , he got away with selling horse meat ffs, what does that say about his procurement strategy, while many are jumping though hoops for RT and paying for the privilege , yet larry still got away with loopholes ,putting the tractor and flag on imported produce with minimal assurance (if any)

Agreed but as per my post above, evolution not revolution would be my preference

 

[neilo]

Yes we get audited by Tesco on top etc but without RT I would be concerned about the baseline requirement.

I have yet to see a supermarket sell anything British which did not carry the red tractor but concede that they are clearly happy selling non British non red tractor stuff. Conversely there are the non-British, red tractor assured vegetables…

like I say not perfect but a basis to work from.

In the absence of RT, if the individual buyers wished to stipulate the same standards of paper records (which is all RT is ultimately) then they would have to pay a sufficient premium for suppliers to comply.

As it is, the control is such (particularly in beef) that they don’t need to pay extra, we’re all doing it as a base standard foc.

 

[tw15]

Photo emerges of the RT Christmas party.

NO THATS A BOARD MEETING

 

[neilo]

thats fair enough as long as the supermarkets clamp right down on larry goodman and co , he got away with selling horse meat ffs, what does that say about his procurement strategy, , yet larry still got away with loopholes ,putting the tractor and flag on imported produce with minimal assurance (if any) .and he was still putting meat on all the supermarket shelves after the scandal
while many are jumping though hoops for RT and paying for the privilege

Well, no he didn’t. The famous horse meat came in from a fraudulent European supplier, supplying ‘meat’ into a processor that was making oven ready lasagnes, later sold in Tesco stores (& Iceland iirc?).

 

[andybk]

Well, no he didn’t. The famous horse meat came in from a fraudulent European supplier, supplying ‘meat’ into a processor that was making oven ready lasagnes, later sold in Tesco stores (& Iceland iirc?).

but it still went through his company , that used the red tractor, what does that say about assurance and trackability

Revealed: Dirty Larry, the multi-millionaire behind firm sneaking horsemeat into your supermarket

Larry Goodman's ABP Food Group has contracts to supply burgers to Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury and Burger King. The Irishman once had business links to Saddam Hussein.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[tullah]

A lot of the anti-red tractor noise on this forum is related solely to combinable crops (albeit not exclusively).

For those sectors one or two steps above in the ‘food chain’ producing meat and dairy etc I feel the red tractor provides a good, defendable platform to work from even if end users insist on their own to audits to ensure standards are met. That is not to say there is not room for improvement.

Without red tractor I would be very concerned about what might come in its place - for Instance our produce is on the shelves of probably 5 supermarkets and I would not want to be meeting the criteria of each of their own rules. This was one of the main rationales for red tractor in the first place and that has not gone away.

While change is often welcomed and reform probably needed, we should be careful not to shoot ourselves in the the foot.

But they already have shelves full of imports masquerading as RT. RT dont care if these imports are blended with UK RT cereals .
What's that all about? Sorry this has already been said hundred times and we are just banging our heads against the door. Do the non farmers union do logic?

 

[Jimdog1]

Any M&S or Sainsburys suppliers? They both appear to shun RT so how does it work?

 

[neilo]

Any M&S or Sainsburys suppliers? They both appear to shun RT so how does it work?

Iirc Sainsbury’s dropped RT several years ago. I think their dedicated supplier groups still have to do similar though, and seem to remember them being on with carbon auditing a couple of years ago. I’ve no problem with that though, those suppliers can choose whether the premiums paid are worth the extra hassle. That’s as it should be imo.

 

[ajd132]

Iirc Sainsbury’s dropped RT several years ago. I think their dedicated supplier groups still have to do similar though, and seem to remember them being on with carbon auditing a couple of years ago. I’ve no problem with that though, those suppliers can choose whether the premiums paid are worth the extra hassle. That’s as it should be imo.

When we used to supply sainsburys wheat (via a miller) we used to carbon audit, that was about 6 years ago.

 

[SilliamWhale]

I can't understand why Madam President keeps banging on about this?

She appears to be obsessed with Farm Assurance. The majority of us know it's at least 75% bull poo.

I expect she sees a potential career in this area after NFU

 

[SilliamWhale]

Do imports have multiple schemes?

Answer is no. They have no schemes. All U.K. farmers produce to the law such as approved pesticides and sprayer application licenses to name a couple of things. Why do we need a scheme to sit over the top of what’s already law?

Your paying for your sprayer license and then paying a privately funded company owned the the Nfu to check your license you’ve already paid for.

It’s a total con.

Bang on.