Concerned about Red Tractor collapse.

MrNoo

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Cirencester
So what happens if they go under?

Presumably you lose your premium but can sell your produce anyway? It's the same stuff after all.
It'll all go back to how it was before, market price for goods. No deductions, this is where RT and mostly the NFU have screwed us farmers over.
I find it alarming (although not surprising at all) that the Non Farming Union have remained silent over this matter, as if they leave it long enough it will just go away. It just highlights how out of touch they are with farmers
 
What hasn't started to register with some of these organisations is that with the BPS going, farms are going to be looking for savings.

Here's a clear example of expenditure with no value to the farmer, only added costs. A prime candidate for cost cutting, especially if they go belly up with your membership fee.

When RT goes wrong everybody will send an invoice to the NFU after all they own it. Those that are still NFU members will just knock it off their annual membership fee of the union. The NFU set it up so they will have to pay the subs back and then they’ll be the ones paying it all back when people clock on RT is just like the PPI fiasco.
 
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Drillman

Member
Mixed Farmer
It’s the sheer arrogance of red tractor that surprises me, Arrogance towards the very people who pay them an awful lot of money annually.

If red tractor had any respect at all for farmers or British agriculture they would have sat down a long time ago with truly independent people such as @Clive and @Grass And Grain and got this whole mess sorted out.

As is they have made no effort at all to communicate with the paying farmer members,

Its gone further than that as the tractor hasnt even make any attempt to talk to AHDB about how they could offer the farmer better value for money so lost £250,000 of there marketing budget.

So now all we’re left with is a private company who demand money from us before we can have market access. And at the same time they complain that they lost there marketing budget. it’s a scam it’s a con it’s a disgrace!

What red tractor also seem to not realise is there are getting less farmers on a yearly basis as the trend is for farms to get bigger, store livestock there is no point been assured as it doesn’t do anything, pretty much the same for fat cattle/lamb through livestock markets. red tractor has already lost all those customers. More will follow. Long term there income levels wil drop and the value of been assured with rt will get weaker

As for me, well we’re currently still assured for beef and cereals, but the inspector is in for a hard time if there’s any nonsense at our next visit, and will be told to sex and leave if there is any mission creep or pointless costly add ons.

There’s no place for something that isn’t financially viable and the cereal job is on a Knife edge already, and our beef operation as it’s currently run, rt is just another parasite drawing off us with no return.

red tractor could have fixed this but unfortunately they were far more interested in gravy than humble pie and will now suffer as a result.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
What red tractor also seem to not realise is there are getting less farmers on a yearly basis as the trend is for farms to get bigger, store livestock there is no point been assured as it doesn’t do anything, pretty much the same for fat cattle/lamb through livestock markets. red tractor has already lost all those customers. More will follow. Long term there income levels wil drop and the value of been assured with rt will get weaker

oh they realise this alright and is why they are desperately trying to get involved with DEFRA over SFI as some sort of private police force and also their desire to get involved in carbon auditing etc

they are dealing with farms getting bigger by now making landowners who use contractors pay for membership despite the contractor already being audited and also paying a fee …….. they bought this gem in a couple of years ago, it’s enforced by merchants being forced to only pay account with same name as RT membership

greedy ba@#£&*ds they are !
 
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Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
A local farmer who is also an inspector has jumped ship saying its all going wrong internally but the most shocking comment from him was that he'd been an NFU member for 40 years but was cancelling that as well because they won't listen about RT in any way. Its just another income for them so they will support it to the end, which might just be the end of them as well at this rate. The level of discontent is alarming.
That says it all. I was told that about half the inspectors failed their exams last Autumn, so they're short of folk to do the job. Inspector told me that.
Same inspector said they often ring through to boss to talk things through after tough encounters with farmers, farmers who would complain at more and more daft rules. Said inspector didn't blame the farmers as such, but more so blamed RT. I could see it was getting the inspector down. Shame, as was genuinely a nice person.
NSTS is already a legal requirement, every three years, farm assured or not. There’s no reason for that to disappear with RT.
As for NROSO, there’s no need for it at all, but could stay as a voluntary organisation of course, if they could find enough subscribers to make it viable (doubtful).
Any scheme that is based on collecting points for going to a show, attending a company’s knee’s up, or even just being a member on here FFS, does nothing for safety of pesticide application. It’s as bad as RT in that it is there purely to tick boxes, and worse, make you attend promotional events to get a hard sell.
Good points. Gaining points to go to a show or read a magazine. What a load of tosh. But of course NRoSO is extremely important!
they are dealing with farms getting bigger by now making landowners who use contractors pay for membership despite the contractor already being audited and also paying a fee …….. they bought this gem in a couple of years ago, it’s enforced by merchants being forced to only pay account with same name as RT membership

greedy ba@#£&*ds they are !
A new scheme could address that. Can't see why a single assurance account shouldn't be OK. Will bring contract farmers on board to a new scheme.
 
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Highashgrange

Member
Arable Farmer
What Red Tractor have forgotten is they work for us and not the other way around, so when the idiotic hitler like inspector turns up, put them straight immediately that we are paying their wages and any funny business will see them escorted off the premises.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
I don't go to Hereford Market, so I don't know what they have done before, but I've just seen this. anyone know the reasons.


That will be to allow exports to the EU, due to new rules coming in from mid-January (iirc). @Frank-the-Wool brought it up in a thread a few weeks ago.
To be eligible for export, all stock will have to have come premises that are ‘regularly’ seen by a vet for the purposes of disease surveillance. I guess the assumption is that farm assured stock is already under that system as it entails a vet health & welfare review?
 

Frank-the-Wool

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
East Sussex
That will be to allow exports to the EU, due to new rules coming in from mid-January (iirc). @Frank-the-Wool brought it up in a thread a few weeks ago.
To be eligible for export, all stock will have to have come premises that are ‘regularly’ seen by a vet for the purposes of disease surveillance. I guess the assumption is that farm assured stock is already under that system as it entails a vet health & welfare review?

Ironically RT farms will I presume automatically comply.
Otherwise others will have to complete a declaration, possibly with every consignment.
 

tullah

Member
Location
Linconshire
When RT goes wrong everybody will send an invoice to the NFU after all they own it. Those that are still NFU members will just knock it off their annual membership fee of the union. The NFU set it up so they will have to pay the subs back and then they’ll be the ones paying it all back when people clock on RT is just like the PPI fiasco.
Not supporting farmers, in fact going against farmers will have a huge impact on the non farming union income as their subs just fade away.
 

tullah

Member
Location
Linconshire
Shouldn't we, when writing on here, be substituting the words Non Farming Union for RT.
The owners of Rt are the non farming union hiding behind some vague logo RT which they pretend to have nothing to do with. These people are RT, no ifs and buts about it.
It makes me laugh when non fu sing the praises of RT when in fact its them themselves.
Dont let them hide behind and fudge responsibility of their silly little red tractor.
These people are making fools of their membership.
 

serf

Member
Location
warwickshire
I don't go to Hereford Market, so I don't know what they have done before, but I've just seen this. anyone know the reasons.

Looks like there getting this form out there ready for when the RT job folds , so this will supercede the RT 🙂
Looks a lot simpler than RT job ,
tick tick sign job done 🤣
 

Humble Village Farmer

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Essex
It'll all go back to how it was before, market price for goods. No deductions, this is where RT and mostly the NFU have screwed us farmers over.
I find it alarming (although not surprising at all) that the Non Farming Union have remained silent over this matter, as if they leave it long enough it will just go away. It just highlights how out of touch they are with farmers
That approach has probably worked for all these gravy train types in the past, but now with social media and other groups of farmers outside the non farmers union, it's not so easy for them to control the narrative any more.
 

slackjawedyokel

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Northumberland
Here’s a thought.

I know that RT assurance has cost me quite a bit over the past 20+ years; directly in terms of the fees charged and indirectly in terms of levys on my produce and the extra office- time required to jump through the extra hoops that are presented.

What I have received in return for my money is unclear. As far as I remember the scheme was originally sold as a way to realise a premium for our produce. This rapidly seemed to morph into RT being a ‘gatekeeper’ organisation, whereby I have to be assured to send my grain to the local silo, and I have to be assured to send my cattle to the abattoir (they’re organic, so I can’t take them to the mart without losing the small but real premium on them).

Like everyone else who is farm assured, I’ve regularly had guff through the post extolling RTs brilliance and I strongly suspect it’s all a load of rubbish because I don’t believe it’s something that customers seek out therefore it adds no value.

Just wondering; could we commission a piece of independent research into what factors customers take into account when buying products in the supermarket? Thinking about, say, beef and lamb (my main areas), I strongly suspect that customers will buy mainly on factors such as price and maybe where the animals were produced and how long the meat has been aged. I suspect that virtually no-one goes into a shop looking for the red tractor symbol, or could take a stab at its meaning if asked.

It would be good to have something concrete to throw back at RT next time we’re told what a good job they’re doing on our behalf.

What do you think @Clive @Chris F ? Personally I’d be happy to sling a few tenners in a fund for such a piece of research, but personally I wouldn’t have a clue how to start organising it.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Here’s a thought.

I know that RT assurance has cost me quite a bit over the past 20+ years; directly in terms of the fees charged and indirectly in terms of levys on my produce and the extra office- time required to jump through the extra hoops that are presented.

What I have received in return for my money is unclear. As far as I remember the scheme was originally sold as a way to realise a premium for our produce. This rapidly seemed to morph into RT being a ‘gatekeeper’ organisation, whereby I have to be assured to send my grain to the local silo, and I have to be assured to send my cattle to the abattoir (they’re organic, so I can’t take them to the mart without losing the small but real premium on them).

Like everyone else who is farm assured, I’ve regularly had guff through the post extolling RTs brilliance and I strongly suspect it’s all a load of rubbish because I don’t believe it’s something that customers seek out therefore it adds no value.

Just wondering; could we commission a piece of independent research into what factors customers take into account when buying products in the supermarket? Thinking about, say, beef and lamb (my main areas), I strongly suspect that customers will buy mainly on factors such as price and maybe where the animals were produced and how long the meat has been aged. I suspect that virtually no-one goes into a shop looking for the red tractor symbol, or could take a stab at its meaning if asked.

It would be good to have something concrete to throw back at RT next time we’re told what a good job they’re doing on our behalf.

What do you think @Clive @Chris F ? Personally I’d be happy to sling a few tenners in a fund for such a piece of research, but personally I wouldn’t have a clue how to start organising it.

The problem is how do you do that research. Asking shoppers their opinions is a non-starter as they have regularly been shown to say one thing and then do the other, usually when it would entail paying more.

The only people that would have accurate data on consumers’ shopping habits would be the supermarkets, who scrutinise it to work out how to manipulate and squeeze another penny out of it. That’s their job and they’re exceptionally good at it.

Good luck with extracting that info from them though.
 

Worsall

Member
Arable Farmer
Dear Customer, while shopping,

"When looking at labels, which food is better for you and produced to a higher standard? Green Tractor / Red Tractor / Orange Tractor "
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 79 42.5%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 65 34.9%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.1%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 6 3.2%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,287
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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