Coronavirus was already in Italy in September 2019...

[ollie989898]

Reuters | Breaking International News & Views

Find latest news from every corner of the globe at Reuters.com, your online source for breaking international news coverage.

uk.reuters.com

ROME (Reuters) - The new coronavirus was circulating in Italy since September 2019, a study by the National Cancer Institute (INT) of the Italian city of Milan shows, signaling that COVID-19 might have spread beyond China earlier than previously thought.

...Italy’s first COVID-19 patient was detected on Feb. 21 in a little town near Milan, in the northern region of Lombardy...

...11,6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020, had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

A further specific SARS-CoV-2 antibodies test was carried out by the University of Siena for the same research titled “Unexpected detection of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies in the pre-pandemic period in Italy”.

It showed that four cases dated back to the first week of October were also positive for antibodies neutralizing the virus, meaning they had got infected in September, Giovanni Apolone, a co-author of the study, told Reuters.


“This is the main finding: people with no symptoms not only were positive after the serological tests but had also antibodies able to kill the virus,” Apolone said.

“It means that the new coronavirus can circulate among the population for long and with a low rate of lethality not because it is disappearing but only to surge again,” he added...

 

[Danllan]

No surprise, we already knew it had been in France earlier than originally thought. The real game-changer in all this is going to be when we find out the truth as to how early the Chinese authorities knew how serious this virus could, or would, be.

Of course, they may have already permanently silenced everyone they thought likely to tell; but such a secret will be very hard to keep long-term. My guess is that, sooner or later, a posthumous video message will surface or a successful defection will occur, and the truth will out.

China will deny everything, claiming it's fake news or some such. But this is vastly, vastly bigger than Russia's novichok murders and I think it would lead to a huge response, maybe even sufficient to see the CCP come to grief. It's an ill wind...

 

[bobk]

Said it all along , anyone want some antibodies ?

 

[DaveGrohl]

No surprise here. Wifey had it start of Feb after flying, and we know a few who flew similar time who are convinced they had it.

 

[neilo]

If it was in Italy that far back, what evidence is there that it originated in China at all? Will Trumpet have to rename it Itavirus now?

 

[Highland Mule]

If it was in Italy that far back, what evidence is there that it originated in China at all? Will Trumpet have to rename it Itavirus now?

The story was it had travelled from Wuhan to Italy with the Chinese returning to work after their New Year, but maybe they took it to China when then went home?

 

[matthew]

In France early December 2019, if not earlier. Sports team in September?

French hospital discovers Covid-19 case from December

Man found to have had virus a month before government confirmed first cases

www.theguardian.com

 

[Stuart J]

Maybe that should make those on here calling it the china-virus, and demanding we stop buying chinese products think again.

But I'm not optimistic.

 

[uztrac]

No surprise here. Wifey had it start of Feb after flying, and we know a few who flew similar time who are convinced they had it.

Pretty sure that your situation very similar to my own.My wife flew back from a business trip in central europe late January 20.Had a couple of days in bed about a week later.We put it down to aircraft a/c the usual stuff,but now think it could have been the chinese virus as aircraft had been to Iran etc.

 

[DaveGrohl]

Pretty sure that your situation very similar to my own.My wife flew back from a business trip in central europe late January 20.Had a couple of days in bed about a week later.We put it down to aircraft a/c the usual stuff,but now think it could have been the chinese virus as aircraft had been to Iran etc.

My wife was struggling to breathe for three or four days, she said she'd never known anything like it. Other flu symptoms also. At the time it was being reported as something we should be getting worried about but that it hadn't quite arrived here yet.

 

[robs1]

Maybe that should make those on here calling it the china-virus, and demanding we stop buying chinese products think again.

But I'm not optimistic.

Stopping buying Chinese tat is far more than a reaction to the virus, it's to with their appalling human rights attitude, the steam rollering of Hong Kong, their cyber attacks on other countries and the need to support our own industries to keep jobs here.
Farmers want the UK consumer to buy our higher welfare more expensive food but then are happy to buy sh!t because it's cheaper

 

[arcobob]

Stopping buying Chinese tat is far more than a reaction to the virus, it's to with their appalling human rights attitude, the steam rollering of Hong Kong, their cyber attacks on other countries and the need to support our own industries to keep jobs here.
Farmers want the UK consumer to buy our higher welfare more expensive food but then are happy to buy sh!t because it's cheaper

As things stand at the moment the Chinese sell us an awful lot of crap and tell us very little of the truth. One of those we can change, the other we cannot.

 

[sticky]

My wife and daughter came back from a French skiing holiday in mid Jan and within 5 days my daughter became ill, coughing really badly. Five days later my wife went down with what ever it was and I have never seen her or anybody so ill, she started coughing up blood, quacks said it was pneumonia, this lasted a good 10 days and it took several weeks before she felt strong again. She even had to have an inhaler for a while to help her breathe without wheezing.
A few close friends who we shoot/socialise with had coughs or sore throats after that. They are all convinced that it was covid.
I never even got a sniffle which was very lucky as I have asthma and any infection tends to end up on my chest.

 

[Exfarmer]

Reuters | Breaking International News & Views

Find latest news from every corner of the globe at Reuters.com, your online source for breaking international news coverage.

uk.reuters.com

ROME (Reuters) - The new coronavirus was circulating in Italy since September 2019, a study by the National Cancer Institute (INT) of the Italian city of Milan shows, signaling that COVID-19 might have spread beyond China earlier than previously thought.

...Italy’s first COVID-19 patient was detected on Feb. 21 in a little town near Milan, in the northern region of Lombardy...

...11,6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020, had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

A further specific SARS-CoV-2 antibodies test was carried out by the University of Siena for the same research titled “Unexpected detection of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies in the pre-pandemic period in Italy”.

It showed that four cases dated back to the first week of October were also positive for antibodies neutralizing the virus, meaning they had got infected in September, Giovanni Apolone, a co-author of the study, told Reuters.


“This is the main finding: people with no symptoms not only were positive after the serological tests but had also antibodies able to kill the virus,” Apolone said.

“It means that the new coronavirus can circulate among the population for long and with a low rate of lethality not because it is disappearing but only to surge again,” he added...

Have read it through, and if the report is correct in all points it does raise a lot of questions.
We should discount any unproven reports of Covid as may or may not have been, as has been widely quoted on here and in many other sources. By this I mean all possibly, but not proven and could just be seasonal flu. Having come close to death myself from Flu induced pneumonia, a proper dose of Flu can be horrendous and is often caught from air travel , which is the main carrier of it around the world.
However, if this report is correct and it makes some very strong claims, 11.6% of healthy patients in cancer screening tests proved positive to antibodies against Covid suggests something, not seen anywhere else in Europe, as far as I am aware. Particularly, as it also suggests some of the samples, were taken back in October, suggesting a certainty, the patient had Covid in September.
This would blow out of the water, the scenario that it erupted in China in late Autumn, early winter.
These samples need very urgent re examination, by a third party.

 

[ollie989898]

My wife and daughter came back from a French skiing holiday in mid Jan and within 5 days my daughter became ill, coughing really badly. Five days later my wife went down with what ever it was and I have never seen her or anybody so ill, she started coughing up blood, quacks said it was pneumonia, this lasted a good 10 days and it took several weeks before she felt strong again. She even had to have an inhaler for a while to help her breathe without wheezing.
A few close friends who we shoot/socialise with had coughs or sore throats after that. They are all convinced that it was covid.
I never even got a sniffle which was very lucky as I have asthma and any infection tends to end up on my chest.

I have a sneaky feeling a lot more of us have had the virus but without realising it. As you say the symptoms can be easily laid at the door of something else and people who only felt a bit ropey might not have bothered seeking actual medical help.

 

[bobk]

I have a sneaky feeling a lot more of us have had the virus but without realising it. As you say the symptoms can be easily laid at the door of something else and people who only felt a bit ropey might not have bothered seeking actual medical help.

I've also a feeling the virus is struggling to find customers , Hull and Lincs are the hotspots , not exactly dense populations

 

[Tarw Coch]

Maybe that should make those on here calling it the china-virus, and demanding we stop buying chinese products think again.

But I'm not optimistic.

That’s it, no more Pizza for me

 

[Exfarmer]

I've also a feeling the virus is struggling to find customers , Hull and Lincs are the hotspots , not exactly dense populations

Food processing plants!

 

[matthew]

Have read it through, and if the report is correct in all points it does raise a lot of questions.
We should discount any unproven reports of Covid as may or may not have been, as has been widely quoted on here and in many other sources. By this I mean all possibly, but not proven and could just be seasonal flu. Having come close to death myself from Flu induced pneumonia, a proper dose of Flu can be horrendous and is often caught from air travel , which is the main carrier of it around the world.
However, if this report is correct and it makes some very strong claims, 11.6% of healthy patients in cancer screening tests proved positive to antibodies against Covid suggests something, not seen anywhere else in Europe, as far as I am aware. Particularly, as it also suggests some of the samples, were taken back in October, suggesting a certainty, the patient had Covid in September.
This would blow out of the water, the scenario that it erupted in China in late Autumn, early winter.
These samples need very urgent re examination, by a third party.

The French samples I mentioned from a sports team, were taken when they arrived home from an event held in Wuhan. So not blown out of the water at all.
I believe air travel was significant in the spread last autumn.

More here:

Did the Military World Games Spread COVID-19?

The October 2019 event, held in Wuhan, China, appears to have been a vector for spreading disease in the U.S. and around the world.

prospect.org

We started a mile behind in March, and have never caught up.

 

[Exfarmer]

The French samples I mentioned from a sports team, were taken when they arrived home from an event held in Wuhan. So not blown out of the water at all.
I believe air travel was significant in the spread last autumn.

We started a mile behind, and have never caught up.

The French samples only reveal an early December possible infection , this Italian report suggests Mid September, it was present in Italy.
I cannot possibly say this is wrong, but I would suggest the samples need checking urgently by an independent party. If it was in Italy then it would suggest the virus has probably been in the human population far longer than currently thought. It could also raise very serious questions as to its original source.