Cost Of Keeping Suckler Replacements

[sheep&cows&stuff]

Curious as to what the general thought is on this.

Are you better rearing your own heifer calves to add to the suckler herd (advantages of a closed herd) or buying in breeding replacements ready to calf or with calves at foot?

If you breed your own replacements then realistically it will be 40 months at least before you realise a financial return on that heifer. At a year old, a good heifer should be worth £800.

If you buy in a replacement springing heifer, a good one will be £1400 - £1600 approx. If all goes well you will realise a financial gain in 12 months.

What do people prefer?

This isn't another theoretical question by the way, I am finally settled into a suckler herd that I am happy with and my first batch of nice heifer calves will soon be of weaning age - so trying to figure out what I will do. Before hand I had to sell them for cash flow reasons, but now I have the option. Personally I have some cracking heifer calves that I would love to keep for cows.

 

[shearerlad]

It depends hugely on your goals within your herd. I sold some yearling heifers in late may averaging £1046. At the weekend I bought bullers for £110 more. What I do know is that the home bred heifer have too much beef blood in them for what I like, with the chance of more difficult calvings and lack of milk.

 

[puppet]

Depends how quickly you want to expand. We breed all our replacements so less disease risk and know the history of the cow, how milky, temperament, etc.
Always cheaper to rear your own. Try bulling at 15-18 months. Cow costs £500 for the first year of calf life then another £200 to take the heifer over the first winter. Another £500 to calving at 24-27 months. Total £1200.
Bought-in £1500.
No doubt plenty will argue about the figures which can be less if you out-winter or more if you have to pay others to do the work. Also depends on when you calve your cows as autumn born will cost less their first year

 

[sheep&cows&stuff]

I agree with the benefit of knowing the history of the cow & there most definitely is a sense of pride in breeding your own cows. Thanks for the replies, just curious as to how others look at the situation.

 

[milkloss]

Depends what you’re trying to achieve. Our cows went too chx and I felt they were lacking milk so have been using sim bulls to improve. It has but not fast enough so would have been better buying in replacements tbh.

Health status is the problem with buying in stuff but does change attributes of the herd much quicker.

 

[sheep&cows&stuff]

Agree - I recently got rid of my worst 3 cows which coincidentally were empty and replaced them with 2 much better springing heifers for very little more money.

 

[livestock 1]

I used to breed my own for years until I could get near £1000 for my own heifers which were still to keep a while before they were big enough to bull. Since then I have bred less of my own and bought either incalf heifers or heifers and calves in. It speeds the process up as said earlier. Bought some heifers and calves last spring for £1600 av and just sold the calves for £1000 so that suits me. Mind you need to stand a while to pick them up at the right money. Think they are cheaper now.
Much better health status breeding your own and keeping a closed herd so there is a risk.

 

[sheep&cows&stuff]

I used to breed my own for years until I could get near £1000 for my own heifers which were still to keep a while before they were big enough to bull. Since then I have bred less of my own and bought either incalf heifers or heifers and calves in. It speeds the process up as said earlier. Bought some heifers and calves last spring for £1600 av and just sold the calves for £1000 so that suits me. Mind you need to stand a while to pick them up at the right money. Think they are cheaper now.
Much better health status breeding your own and keeping a closed herd so there is a risk.

At what age were you getting £1000 for them?

 

[livestock 1]

At what age were you getting £1000 for them?

18 months old

 

[John Chance]

Hard to put a cash value today on minimising the risk of disease in the future. Hard to put a cash value today on the ability to record and improve your own breeding stock in the future.

I suppose it might not be the right thing to do if your bulls are always terminal types. Then you would be swimming against the tide trying to make good cows out of their offspring. Picking the best cows and using a maternal bull on them works when you have the numbers. If not enough to do that then what about some synchronised AI on the best cows with maternal bulls; or even have a couple of years with a maternal bull, take the hit on cash flow (maybe not so much with cull cows chopped in at the right time of year) and rejuvenate the herd.

Bull heifers at 15 months to make rapid progress.

 

[livestock 1]

Hard to put a cash value today on minimising the risk of disease in the future. Hard to put a cash value today on the ability to record and improve your own breeding stock in the future.

I suppose it might not be the right thing to do if your bulls are always terminal types. Then you would be swimming against the tide trying to make good cows out of their offspring. Picking the best cows and using a maternal bull on them works when you have the numbers. If not enough to do that then what about some synchronised AI on the best cows with maternal bulls; or even have a couple of years with a maternal bull, take the hit on cash flow (maybe not so much with cull cows chopped in at the right time of year) and rejuvenate the herd.

Bull heifers at 15 months to make rapid progress.

I agree. Buying replacements in is fine until there’s a problem and it can cost a fortune. We had a purchased incalf heifer many years ago who calved and lost her calf immediately, after a swift pm on the calf revealed ecoli which had arrived with with the heifer. Subsequent losses ensued

 

[lamb or beef]

I now buy in all my replacements from the south west of Ireland they could be 26-30 months before they are going to the bull and have fit cows in the herd carrying their 10/12 calves. Home bread heifer calving down at 2 years old generally never seen the 4 calving.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Home bread heifer calving down at 2 years old generally never seen the 4 calving.

4th calving you mean?
Why ever not?

 

[lamb or beef]

4th calving you mean?
Why ever not?

Yeah 4th calf. I put it down to them being to young and soft calving at 2yo. Was a different story when I held them away from the bull until 2yo but there was extra cost in that.

 

[case 5140]

Theirs alot of young cows with calfs at foot for £700 to £900 ish at the mo in the markets

 

[valtraman]

We used to buy hfrs with calfs at foot until we got our numbers up now we produce enough of our own replacements and have surplus to sell.have found that our own replacements last a lot longer than anything we have bought in and our own breeding mean our herd is a far more even bunch

 

[Samcowman]

@sheep&cows&stuff
What breed are your heifers you are thinking of keeping and what are they out of? If they may be too terminal conti x conti then it may be better to cash them in and buy in replacements as they are likely to not be milky enough.
If you don’t want to calve your own at 2 then you are better buying in as keeping heifers till they calve at 3 is wasting money.
If you have enough cows to run a more maternal bull or even use sexed AI on some for replacements then it is definitely cheaper and in my view better.

 

[Hilly]

Its a never ending question with no answer, but look at successful herds in countries with no sub , do they buy in replacements ?

 

[sheep&cows&stuff]

@sheep&cows&stuff
What breed are your heifers you are thinking of keeping and what are they out of? If they may be too terminal conti x conti then it may be better to cash them in and buy in replacements as they are likely to not be milky enough.
If you don’t want to calve your own at 2 then you are better buying in as keeping heifers till they calve at 3 is wasting money.
If you have enough cows to run a more maternal bull or even use sexed AI on some for replacements then it is definitely cheaper and in my view better.

Calves are lim / sim crosses. So in theory should be milky / good mothers. Out of nice lim / sim cows.
I have been trying to get into bigger / stronger cows lately, and by bulling heifers before they are 2 years old then you run the risk of ending up with a smaller cow - which is fine except I like a big block of a cow.

I don't have large enough numbers to run a maternal bull...

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Calves are lim / sim crosses. So in theory should be milky / good mothers. Out of nice lim / sim cows.
I have been trying to get into bigger / stronger cows lately, and by bulling heifers before they are 2 years old then you run the risk of ending up with a smaller cow - which is fine except I like a big block of a cow.

I don't have large enough numbers to run a maternal bull...

I'm fairly new to this game, but I calved 3 homebred lim x heifers in 2013 - 1 was 3yo, the others 2yo.
All three are now about 800kg (too big for my liking btw). I say 'are now' but the 1 that calved at 3 went cull on Monday, as her udder was awful meaning this year's calf never even sucked the back teats.

No reason a 2yo calver can't be a decent size ime.