Council Bans Unstunned Meat

[Smith31]

Thats most farmers with tb reactors then!
Or are they Defras property once on the lorry?

Use social media and the animal rights groups to your advantage. Put a robust argument forward why badgers should be controlled. Stating how pregnant cows have to be slaughtered. The NFU should be doing this. Pull at peoples heart strings.

 

[Wooly]

Another one with a chip !


Going back to the thread.......good on the Council for taking a stand on this.

It appears that since Rochdale Council finally did something about the child grooming, other Councils are been brave about not upsetting our foreign immigrants, who in the pass had always played the race card.

Hopefully this is the start of completely banning non stunned killing.

 

[Raider112]

Your original comment implied that it was acceptable to send animals which were pregnant to slaughter, as long as they were slaughtered legally.Please read your own post.

Birth control is simple, don't let the bull or tup have a go on an animal which you think is ill or too old, instead of trying to get another years offspring from it.

Animals which are pregnant should not be sent to slaughter, full stop and this is not acceptable in 2017. Especially when us British farmers, are trying so hard to market ourselves as having the highest welfare standards in the world.

This thread is about animal welfare, namely halal slaughter, the last few seconds of a animals life. Yet you will defend farmers who will allow pregnant animals to be sent to slaughter and suffer in transport for hours to reach the abattoir.

I apologise to the forum as I do not wish to cause an argument.However the transport and slaughter of old, pregnant cull animals is just unacceptable.

But what percentage of sheep or cattle that are pregnant when slaughtered would be intended for slaughter when mated? you say don't get them pregnant but a healthy animal one week can be completely different a week later. If you are saying that a beast worth £1000 plus should be shot in the farmyard rather than sent to an abbatoir because it's a couple of months in calf you obviously have to make a living from your farm.

 

[Cowabunga]

But what percentage of sheep or cattle that are pregnant when slaughtered would be intended for slaughter when mated? you say don't get them pregnant but a healthy animal one week can be completely different a week later. If you are saying that a beast worth £1000 plus should be shot in the farmyard rather than sent to an abbatoir because it's a couple of months in calf you obviously have to make a living from your farm.

He's a clueless Troll. Don't bother giving the time of day. Obviously thinks sheep/cows don't run with the rams/bulls and that the culls can be identified months ahead, which is a clue to his total lack of practicality. Zero experience trying to look clever.

We can tell them a mile off.

 

[neilo]

As someone who has visited many abattoirs including halal, it is important that cctv cameras are installed. The amount of in lamb ewes and in calf cows which are sent to the halal places is unbelievable. The sellers know full well that these animals may have to travel hundreds of miles to reach the abattoirs, but they put greed before welfare. With tag numbers the animals can be traced and these farmers should be prosecuted. In addition livestock especially tups and ewes are often drugged, when presented at the auction they seem to be in good health, however by the time they reach the abattoir lairage they sometimes struggle to stand as the drugs have worn off. Again the carcasses should be drug tested and prosecutions should follow.

The Muslim customers need to be educated, in order to stop eating all the rubbish and see first hand what goes into their food chain. That's the real problem. If a animal is pregnant or has been abused it's not even halal, regardless of how many prays are said at the point of slaughter.

I see know problem with transporting and culling animals that are pregnant, but obviously only in the early stages of pregnancy. We routinely put cull dairy cows in calf, mostly to settle them so that they weren’t tearing round on concrete every 3 weeks. They were culled long before any calves were even close to viable.

As for your claim that animals are ‘often drugged’, what absolute rubbish! I have never ‘drugged’ an animal before sale for slaughter (or any other sale come to that) and don’t know anyone else that has either. I see BS claims like that as insulting, and show you have very little knowledge of the reality.

As for the Council mentioned in the OP, good on ‘em. Hopefully it will start the ball rolling on much better controls.

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Thats most farmers with tb reactors then!
Or are they Defras property once on the lorry?

That’s on their conscience as it’s out of your hands

 

[Sid]

That’s on their conscience as it’s out of your hands

Afraid not as you would find out if your milk supply contract states no exports of calves.

 

[Northeastfarmer]

Afraid not as you would find out if your milk supply contract states no exports of calves.

Thought you were on anout slaughtering in calf cows?

 

[betweenthelines]

Surely people have a "right" to eat meet that's been slaughtered in the way they want (stunned) just as much as other people have a "right" to eat halal meat.

 

[Cowabunga]

Surely people have a "right" to eat meet that's been slaughtered in the way they want (stunned) just as much as other people have a "right" to eat halal meat.

That kind of 'right' is only there as long as the law allows it. Do we have the 'right' to cull badgers to reduce the risk to our herd's health and welfare? Do we f**k!

 

[slackjawedyokel]

Off topic, but I once had a bit of an online argument with someone who had decided only to buy halal meat not for any religious reason but because of concern over traceability. He thought that halal was very tightly controlled from the “Halal Farm” onwards through the food chain. I did my best to re-educate them!

 

[Smith31]

I see know problem with transporting and culling animals that are pregnant, but obviously only in the early stages of pregnancy. We routinely put cull dairy cows in calf, mostly to settle them so that they weren’t tearing round on concrete every 3 weeks. They were culled long before any calves were even close to viable.

As for your claim that animals are ‘often drugged’, what absolute rubbish! I have never ‘drugged’ an animal before sale for slaughter (or any other sale come to that) and don’t know anyone else that has either. I see BS claims like that as insulting, and show you have very little knowledge of the reality.

As for the Council mentioned in the OP, good on ‘em. Hopefully it will start the ball rolling on much better controls.

As ever rather then share opionins, some members resort to swearing and personal attacks. Because they have a crystal ball on their dining room table and can see how every other farmer, farms.

When was the last time you graded on a ewe slaughter line?. I was at an abattoir earlier this week, from a lot of 93 ewes, 2 died overnight in the abattoir lairage, 1 was condemned and 6 had joints removed due to arthritis. 2 tups had swollen testicles. Yet all these animals were walking and went through a sale ring 24 hours earlier. So how does a animal go from limp free walking to death and arthritis ridden over night without some form of pain killers?.

Unfortunately it is common for some carcasses of cull animals to be littered with small abscesses from unsterilised diy injection needles. This is caused by the reuse of the same needle on several animals with no prior cleansing. And sorry, yes I do know what I'm talking about because I have been on a training course to look out for tell tale signs as we were getting too many waste trimmings at one plant.

I am not defending halal slaughter and if it is done incorrectly the plant should be heavily fined and licences suspended, nor do I find it acceptable that farmers can criticise slaughter yet still send their own animals to these plants when they need to.

 

[Smith31]

That kind of 'right' is only there as long as the law allows it. Do we have the 'right' to cull badgers to reduce the risk to our herd's health and welfare? Do we fudge!

Sorry this is not personal, I read your posts regularly and your a very intelligent man, especially when it comes to machinary. However the law allows halal and kosher. Rather then criticising British abattoirs, I wish farmers would actually go and see what happens there. Rather then base their facts upon a 5 minute animal rights clip taken from YouTube and start a anti halal thread on here every week, it gets boring.

Abattoirs are highly inspected, fine tuned machines, where animal welfare is paramount.

Without the halal trade the sheep prices would collapse overnight, the marts would start closing as the main sheep buyers are for the halal trade. We would turn our best customers both domestic and international into vegetarians. The remaining halal customers, would simply buy lamb from the supermarkets. So what would we do with cull ewes and unmarketable beef cuts?

Would we also ban halal destined live export from Ireland and flood the British marts with those animals?.

The kosher and halal meats would then be imported from Israel and the Middle East.

As this is a farmers forum the question has to be asked, where is the benefit for British Farmers?

 

[spider mike]

There's a few different discussions on here taking place all have there merits and really should have topics to themselves.
The thing i don't like about halal is that only a small percentage goes into the halal trade there's a few non stun halal slaughterhouses near me and at best half there production goes into the halal trade but its more common only 25 to 35 % does the rest goes onto the open market
A large lamb one does 2400 a day peak season and only 800 of them go halal whoesale its all economics if a buyer wants x number of a certain weight and grade the owner knows he has them in his fridge. It saves him hasstle and money killing everything like that .

On the in calf cow front it's common practice for dairy farms who sell liveweight to put cull cows in calf to make themweigh more for market and get a better price my neighbour had a spell of buying cull cows to finish for dunbia and had an awful lot of trouble with these high yeilding dairy cows calving and going down with milk fever or mastitis in the end he packed it in .

 

[neilo]

Sorry this is not personal, I read your posts regularly and your a very intelligent man, especially when it comes to machinary. However the law allows halal and kosher. Rather then criticising British abattoirs, I wish farmers would actually go and see what happens there. Rather then base their facts upon a 5 minute animal rights clip taken from YouTube and start a anti halal thread on here every week, it gets boring.

Abattoirs are highly inspected, fine tuned machines, where animal welfare is paramount.

Without the halal trade the sheep prices would collapse overnight, the marts would start closing as the main sheep buyers are for the halal trade. We would turn our best customers both domestic and international into vegetarians. The remaining halal customers, would simply buy lamb from the supermarkets. So what would we do with cull ewes and unmarketable beef cuts?

Would we also ban halal destined live export from Ireland and flood the British marts with those animals?.

The kosher and halal meats would then be imported from Israel and the Middle East.

As this is a farmers forum the question has to be asked, where is the benefit for British Farmers?

If you read any of those regular 'ban Halal' threads, you will see a number of contributors pointing out that Halal does not mean non-stun. I don't think many have an issue with Halal per se, but they do with the lack of pre-stunning on some Halal lines and (as I understand it) all Kosher lines.
I would think most sheep farmers fully appreciate the importance of those markets to the cull ewe (particularly) trade.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Great move from the council, but a disgrace that it is not the law.
Let’s all hope more follow suit.

I agree

 

[Cowabunga]

Sorry this is not personal, I read your posts regularly and your a very intelligent man, especially when it comes to machinary. However the law allows halal and kosher. Rather then criticising British abattoirs, I wish farmers would actually go and see what happens there. Rather then base their facts upon a 5 minute animal rights clip taken from YouTube and start a anti halal thread on here every week, it gets boring.

Abattoirs are highly inspected, fine tuned machines, where animal welfare is paramount.

Without the halal trade the sheep prices would collapse overnight, the marts would start closing as the main sheep buyers are for the halal trade. We would turn our best customers both domestic and international into vegetarians. The remaining halal customers, would simply buy lamb from the supermarkets. So what would we do with cull ewes and unmarketable beef cuts?

Would we also ban halal destined live export from Ireland and flood the British marts with those animals?.

The kosher and halal meats would then be imported from Israel and the Middle East.

As this is a farmers forum the question has to be asked, where is the benefit for British Farmers?

I'm certainly not disagreeing with you. I just despise all religious crap.

 

[Cowabunga]

If you read any of those regular 'ban Halal' threads, you will see a number of contributors pointing out that Halal does not mean non-stun. I don't think many have an issue with Halal per se, but they do with the lack of pre-stunning on some Halal lines and (as I understand it) all Kosher lines.
I would think most sheep farmers fully appreciate the importance of those markets to the cull ewe (particularly) trade.

Just so.

 

[nelly55]

Any animal deserves to die in a pain free,stress free way,and that to me means it is stunned.As for pregnant animals knowingly sent to slaughter that is a disgrace,even tb animals which are taken because this government can’t get its act together over wildlife infected.I find it hard to stomach that farm assurance schemes are pushed at us yet once that animal is out of sight it’s does not matter.Sorry but good on the council it’s not about religion it’s about this been the 21st century and we should all know better.if things don’t change I won’t be keeping an animal on the farm and going vegan .

 

[Smith31]

If you read any of those regular 'ban Halal' threads, you will see a number of contributors pointing out that Halal does not mean non-stun. I don't think many have an issue with Halal per se, but they do with the lack of pre-stunning on some Halal lines and (as I understand it) all Kosher lines.
I would think most sheep farmers fully appreciate the importance of those markets to the cull ewe (particularly) trade.

Again contrary to what is often said on here, halal slaughter takes place in a fully regulated abattoirs, please go and see how halal and kosher slaughter takes place, instead of some farmers spreading damaging rumours, on public forums which our customers have access to. I am not posting on this topic to criticise farmers, rather try and educate them, as with respect, some don't seem to venture past their farm gates.

There is a full time vet (at a cost of approx £50 an hour) present in every abattoir, with camera phone in pocket, whilst slaughter takes place. Prosecution for incorrect slaughter holds a charge of around £5000 per animal plus legal costs. Considering some halal plants kill in excess of 2000 animals a day, I will leave you to work out the potential fine costs.

The animals are fed into a restrainer, the animal is then slaughtered with a single knife action, the animal then remains in the restrainer to bleed out before being hoisted. The timing on the machinery is electronically programmed, to meet welfare regulation to allow bleeding. I have carried out the eye test on many animals straight after halal slaughter and they are lifeless within seconds.

However, yes mistakes do happen ,I agree. Now try and use stunning tongs on a pen full of bouncing lambs, sows or horned tups, they can take several attempts. Therefore no method is fool proof.

Finally go to any livestock mart in the land, just before any Muslim festival and it will be full to the rafters, because livestock farmers WANT to deal with the halal operators. Nor have I ever seen a farmer refuse to sell his/her livestock to the highest halal bidder in any mart, many halal buyers are even rewarded with a bit of luck money. So before criticising our best sheep customers on a weekly basis, some farmers really should carry out some research beforehand.

This is all I have to say on the subject.