Country file tonite

[S J H]

Shame nobody mentions the vast numbers of 'inefficient' Kiwi farmers whose livelihoods and life savings where wiped out after 1984, making room for those 'efficient' ones to expand. Surely that's the real story of subs disappearing?

Plenty of people have started since and many have carried on farming, so they must have been doing something wrong.

Normal service will be resumed next week, when Adam goes searching for a rare goat

 

[J 1177]

Plenty of people have started since and many have carried on farming, so they must have been doing something wrong.

Normal service will be resumed next week, when Adam goes searching for a rare goat

The guy with the deer (14000 head i think) that seemed good but can you imagine trying to keep that number stocked in the uk as a comercial business outside.

 

[J 1177]

Shame nobody mentions the vast numbers of 'inefficient' Kiwi farmers whose livelihoods and life savings where wiped out after 1984, making room for those 'efficient' ones to expand. Surely that's the real story of subs disappearing?

Dont the kiwis have a very good national marketing body for their lamb. Plus the nz dollar was devalued as sub was removed?

 

[Jackson4]

What they fail to mention is the reason they survived after subsidies was their scale, they only lost 1% of farmers after 84 but the average farm size was big compared, 1000 acres for beef sheep farmers at the moment. 1000 owned acres in a country with a short winter... very different from fragment walled, 3/5/7/10 acre fields in this heavily populated island, split by roads/railway lines etc etc.. 3/5 month winter and £70+ an acre rent.
If land and rent prices dropped like they did there after subs went we would be competing with city money buying up land and property as we have such a large population and economy in comparison. Therefore rents would not fall that far imo.
I think there are alot of differences other than diversification or management which cant be copied so easily.

 

[neilo]

The guy with the deer (14000 head i think) that seemed good but can you imagine trying to keep that number stocked in the uk as a comercial business outside.

He was only the herd manager. It was a Landcorp farm, which I thought was government owned.

 

[S J H]

What they fail to mention is the reason they survived after subsidies was their scale, they only lost 1% of farmers after 84 but the average farm size was big compared, 1000 acres for beef sheep farmers at the moment. 1000 owned acres in a country with a short winter... very different from fragment walled, 3/5/7/10 acre fields in this heavily populated island, split by roads/railway lines etc etc.. 3/5 month winter and £70+ an acre rent.
If land and rent prices dropped like they did there after subs went we would be competing with city money buying up land and property as we have such a large population and economy in comparison. Therefore rents would not fall that far imo.
I think there are alot of differences other than diversification or management which cant be copied so easily.

Yes, but being in a country which is heavy populated and city money, also brings a lot of advantages.

I think people compare the weather too much, without having any experience of it. Where I was they couldn't grow maize, because it was too cold.

As I've said on previous threads, the main difference I can see is that a lot of farms are ring fenced. Although I'm sure there are plenty of farms in lower populated areas of the country that are ring fenced.

 

[S J H]

The guy with the deer (14000 head i think) that seemed good but can you imagine trying to keep that number stocked in the uk as a comercial business outside.

As said above though, I think that's like using velcourt as an example.

 

[Top Tip.]

Just about the only thing we have in common with NZ farming is that we both speak English.

 

[Jim Bullock]

Shame nobody mentions the vast numbers of 'inefficient' Kiwi farmers whose livelihoods and life savings where wiped out after 1984, making room for those 'efficient' ones to expand. Surely that's the real story of subs disappearing?

We had an agronomist in the eighties who used to spend a lot of time in NZ just post subsidy removal and he said it was absolutely dire. Vets never got onto farms as they couldn't be paid, suicides were common, basically there was just no money (he saw farmers straightening nails to repair fences). Its OK now but a lot of farmers went through a lot of pain to get where they are now.

 

[J 1177]

As said above though, I think that's like using velcourt as an example.

Ahh fair enough but what i was getting at planning constraints and nimbys make it less than ideal to farm on such a scale across the uk

 

[Nick Adams]

I

We had an agronomist in the eighties who used to spend a lot of time in NZ just post subsidy removal and he said it was absolutely dire. Vets never got onto farms as they couldn't be paid, suicides were common, basically there was just no money (he saw farmers straightening nails to repair fences). Its OK now but a lot of farmers went through a lot of pain to get where they are now.

My Dad told me it was normal to straighten nails (and staples), I'm proud to come from a long line of nail straighteners.

 

[Pasty]

What they fail to mention is the reason they survived after subsidies was their scale, they only lost 1% of farmers after 84 but the average farm size was big compared, 1000 acres for beef sheep farmers at the moment. 1000 owned acres in a country with a short winter... very different from fragment walled, 3/5/7/10 acre fields in this heavily populated island, split by roads/railway lines etc etc.. 3/5 month winter and £70+ an acre rent.
If land and rent prices dropped like they did there after subs went we would be competing with city money buying up land and property as we have such a large population and economy in comparison. Therefore rents would not fall that far imo.
I think there are alot of differences other than diversification or management which cant be copied so easily.

Who did they copy? I suspect nobody. They just innovated with what they had. It's no good just writing the piece of because we can't grow Kiwi fruit as well. It's the deeper point that is important. They made it work with what they had. Every farmer on the planet can point at another and say 'It's alright for you with that flat land or that amount of rain or that soil type etc. etc. '. The point is we all have challenges. I expect the NZ guys on the show have their fair share.

 

[solo]

It's all very well cutting subsidy like NZ but if you just happen to be stretched a bit financially at the time then you're going to struggle. We all have upsides as well as downsides to our farming business but can you really see some of the die hard dairy farmers here diversifying into say top fruit. There are many farms in this country with a diverse spread of income streams already.

 

[upnortheast]

You realise UK & NZ are totally different when you see the NZ 6 o clock news commercial break contains a sheep wormer ad.
The collective look of amazement on the northern hemisphere members of our group was a picture

 

[JP1]

I


My Dad told me it was normal to straighten nails (and staples), I'm proud to come from a long line of nail straighteners.

My Pre-College employer survived in the 30s Ag recession by taking off bolts off old scrap machinery and selling it at the entrance to Reading Market in Great Knollys Street, one bolt at a time. In fact John George the ironmongery wholesalers in the town kept going dealing in used and new ironmongery

 

[Tarw Coch]

My Pre-College employer survived in the 30s Ag recession by taking off bolts off old scrap machinery and selling it at the entrance to Reading Market in Great Knollys Street, one bolt at a time. In fact John George the ironmongery wholesalers in the town kept going dealing in used and new ironmongery

That's all very well for the 30's but times move on. Dad was born in 1928 so saw the 30's as a kid, yes they were poor, but then as he said, so was everyone else in the village, they weren't any different really. And yes he never threw away nails and staples they were always re used, but then he grew up in very different times to me. If the future of farming is going to depend on straightening nails and selling second hand nuts and bolts why would anyone want to continue when it seems like half the village now drive a luxury car? Oh yes, and dad always saved nuts and bolts, never understood why he'd persevere with something with a stiff thread but as I've already said, he'd seen much harder times.

 

[Henarar]

You realise UK & NZ are totally different when you see the NZ 6 o clock news commercial break contains a sheep wormer ad.
The collective look of amazement on the northern hemisphere members of our group was a picture

move up with ivomec

 

[JP1]

That's all very well for the 30's but times move on. Dad was born in 1928 so saw the 30's as a kid, yes they were poor, but then as he said, so was everyone else in the village, they weren't any different really. And yes he never threw away nails and staples they were always re used, but then he grew up in very different times to me. If the future of farming is going to depend on straightening nails and selling second hand nuts and bolts why would anyone want to continue when it seems like half the village now drive a luxury car? Oh yes, and dad always saved nuts and bolts, never understood why he'd persevere with something with a stiff thread but as I've already said, he'd seen much harder times.

I sort of agree but my Grandad always told me anything that's easy never lasts. As a stockman and as someone who used to drive a livestock wagon (in paper tacho days) I always worked hard, never complained when it took ages for a beast to make up it's mind to load and just regarded washing out constantly as part of my job. I've always loved going on and off farms, never having two days the same and would forsake a salary three times as high doing something I love

 

[opininionated]

We had an agronomist in the eighties who used to spend a lot of time in NZ just post subsidy removal and he said it was absolutely dire. Vets never got onto farms as they couldn't be paid, suicides were common, basically there was just no money (he saw farmers straightening nails to repair fences). Its OK now but a lot of farmers went through a lot of pain to get where they are now.

Vets and drugs, machinery and chemicals, landlords and agents, they ALL rely on the income generated by farm gate produce. If the income isn't there, their services won't be required. If it makes economic sense to destroy a beast rather than treat it, that is what will happen. If the extra yield isn't worth the value of the input, it won't be used, if the rent is not sustainable the land will be given up.
The farming mantra has always to strive for greater yields, perhaps a new view is required, it might well be that farmers wil need to cooperate, to lose some independence, to seek off farm income, some will accept this, some will not, some will thrive, some will not, but farming in one form or another will continue.

 

[Woolly]

Just about the only thing we have in common with NZ farming is that we both speak English.

What are the biggest differences between UK & NZ farming?
Duration of winter?
Price of land?
......