Countryside stewardship... is it worth it?

[Jackov Altraids]

I agree with the comments so far. FWAG in the south west are great.
This point scoring malarky could well come back to haunt some people. Trying to prove how environmentally important your land is could make things very restrictive in the future.
Also, your points score takes no account of farm size so if you put all your 20 acres in, it will fall short of others applying for more than 1% of their 2000 acres.
I'm out of ELS for the first time and loving it. The payments available to me would not cover loss of productivity let alone the time to make the applications, keep records and put up with all the crap. And then.... have to worry that any error found at any time could take the pittance away.
The only way it could work, is if I can find time to improve all the wonderful habitats I've got with a plough and chainsaw and then get a proper amount of money to put it back again. Fudging twatz.

 

[Goweresque]

Until NE decide that they want a true partnership with landowners for environmental benefit rather than an antagonistic relationship whereby they agree to give you money to do (or not do) stuff then spend the next 5 years trying their best to take said money away from you again, then you can count me out.

 

[Sonoftheheir]

Out and feel a lot better for it.

 

[Derky]

We have gone back into it from ELS. The application process was complicated and drawn out and therefore they missed lots of the drill dates for options. What worries me is the good that has been done with ELS will be undone when people give up and rip up margins and corners that are now a host to wildlife.

 

[connor454545]

We went to the intial meeting with natural England and ordered an application pack and booked a one to one session. Application pack hadn't arrived by the one to one session after ringing several times, so took our els instead, so we have booked a follow up session but still haven't received the application pack, apparently it was posted 3 weeks ago......

 

[ajcc]

You couldn't make it up! I left 5 years ago ......NE are still trying to dictate my farming system......too much bad experience, avoid like the plague is my advice!!

 

[Dave645]

I just skimmed it, I can see why they pick re stoning lanes and re concreting yards, as capital options £8m2 lanes £27.50m2 yards. But as it's a package deal i.e. You have to apply for an intergrated scheme, unless you have a lot of lanes and yards to redo where that offsets the cost of field options I don't see the point.

A lot of the over winter options have a no spray option or severely limited spray option, so no good for anyone with black grass issues.
I truly don't belive there is anything of interest for me as I have seen how they have treated a neighbour in HLS after the cost of actually doing some of these things add in the red tape it's marginal at best for a lot of the field options, with only a few lanes that would benefit from re stoning and only a small concrete area that would be classed as needing re concreting it would seem that I am better off away from them.

Its again a poorly put together scheme that takes my money and gives it to big farms with lots of tracks and yards that need re doing.......... that are happy to put up with some pain with field options for the gain.......

 

[Henarar]

Ordered a mid tier pack over three weeks ago! Still not got it and when I asked how long before it would be sent they said they had a backlog of 1000 application packs to send out.

Utter Farce and a complete waste of time, looking online the scheme is overly complicated and drowning in red tape and the payment rates are no where near good enough for the hassle involved

Thus we are out before even looking at it.

you are right its just not workable if you still want to farm the land to any extent, we went to a one to one meeting and were told it works better for arable farmers, if this is right or not I don't know

Until NE decide that they want a true partnership with landowners for environmental benefit rather than an antagonistic relationship whereby they agree to give you money to do (or not do) stuff then spend the next 5 years trying their best to take said money away from you again, then you can count me out.

they did the ESA scheme paid you more or less for what you had that they thought was worth having and what you done if you wanted to do anything, those that organised it were helpful and sensible and would help us to overcome problems that came up that flew in the face of the scheme
entry level was not so good but ok but this new lot is just stupid

 

[Jackov Altraids]

I've worked with many 'environmental advisors' from different organisations over the years. They have all been a pleasure to deal with except one who was unhelpful , condescending and only interested in ticking boxes.
Guess who now works for Natural England and in charge of HLS for this area....

 

[MrNoo]

We were in ELS since day 1, obviously that's ended now, I decided to keep all the margins in place and wait a while before I committed to the mid tier scheme, see what the hoops were like that we had to jump through. Not going to do anything, will leave the margins in place, may rip up some to stop dog walkers.
So I can do what I want with them, when I want and still comply with LERAP's and as said above the wildlife love them, was watching a barn owl one evening last week, simple pleasures that money can't buy.
Weeds can become a pain but a good topping when they get bad and glypho round the edges stops it spreading into the fields.
In the process of having an RPA inspection (started Thurs) so will find out if anything is amiss next week.

 

[Red Fred]

I was told initially last year that my HLS might be terminated a few days early so I could roll over straight into a new scheme, which would be tailored to how things run already, and this sounded perfectly agreeable.
When I spoke to them the other day, though, they said that this is impossible under the competition rules, so I will have to come out for a year, continue with my current practice to see if it helps me qualify and then reapply. So I have to comply for a year with no payments or guarantee that I will be accepted, just a hint that the SSSI may count in my favour.

I often go walking with Mrs Fred on the various Hillforts in the area, and have become accustomed to the whole landscape around them being managed in accordance with HLS schemes, and reading the various instructional signs telling the public what is going on and which species to look out for.
On our last walk, we noticed that the scheme must have ended as it looked like business as usual, with acres of clean looking arable crops where previously there had been HLS ground in various states of cover. It really feels as if the years of schemes and payments have largely been for naught.

 

[Wombat]

I think I am certainly in the minority on TFF with this viewpoint, but speaking to other businesses who are of a similar nature to us some but not all are making good use of Mid Tier. I think scale certainly comes into it. For me it was worth the time reading through the hundreds of pages of guidance to teach myself about how it all works. That lost time is offset against the value of the agreement as a whole which is sizeable six figure sum. If, however, I had 100ac of my own, it probably wouldn't be worth it because I'd still have to spend all the time reading the paperwork (or paying an agent) and I would get a much smaller amount back in return.

I believe that some of the payment rates for field corners and margins give much greater returns than our average cropping returns from those marginal areas of fields. We have all our small sub 5ac fields taken out into 5 year grass at £550/ha -- again far higher margin than we would get trying to farm an awkward small field with big equipment. We use rotational fallow at £436/ha to manage weed burdens and allow mole drainers / cultivation equipment a reliably early entry at the end of the fallow period. We are using the capital grants to put in substantial lengths (1.5km) of hardcore tracks which are paid for by the grants. A neighbouring estate were doing the same and getting grants for concreting yards.

I believe, and this is only my opinion, that we face turbulent times ahead. Mid Tier offers us a substantial diversified income with quite a different risk profile to our main business activities. I believe that it adds resilience to the business and looking back now I wish I'd applied for much greater areas if I knew I would have been successful. With the record keeping requirements and failing from NE, I think farmers have adopted the conclusion that it is simply too complicated. However, if you allow the businesses that are prepared to navigate that complexity the unchallenged ability to do so, you run the risk of giving them a competitive edge which may ultimately not be to your advantage.

On the slightly woolier side of things, I really enjoy the diversity of landscape that Mid Tier allows. I enjoy looking at the wildflower meadows that I have around my house. Seeing barn owls and grey partridges in the fallow areas bring a considerable amount of pleasure, and I value that on top of the £, shilling and pence.

Good points, my issue with this is not the complexities it's the complete randomness of enforcement and the potential punishment.

As an example we farm under 200 acres this is the 3rd year of Bps and we have had 3 inspections (passed all 3) plus a remote sensing but I have a feeling this will now be the 3rd year we won't get paid in Dec so my clash flow has been rearranged to take into the account that it might show up in June. For me I would rather just sack the whole lot off continue on my diversified income streams which I have and continue to expand. The issue is if I sack bps off I am up against a neighbour who may never have been inspected and pockets his on the 1st Dec so I have to live with it.

I looked at the mid tier but I am not sure I could stand another bunch of clipboards appearing and then deciding when we get paid and believe me a failure of one inspection will trigger every other one. Been their got that T shirt when I was in my teens and dad was seriously ill and I failed one.

So like all of these for me it's great until your number comes out the hat multiple times

So we do field margins for the benefits of wild life and loose a small bit monetarily , i did speak to them at cereals and they said they do do some capital grants outside of mid tier so might look again.

Anyway good luck with yours.

 

[Henarar]

i did speak to them at cereals and they said they do do some capital grants outside of mid tier so might look again.

We done about 4 k of work for capital grants, that was relatively simple
not been paid yet though

 

[gone up the hill]

you are right its just not workable if you still want to farm the land to any extent, we went to a one to one meeting and were told it works better for arable farmers, if this is right or not I don't know

they did the ESA scheme paid you more or less for what you had that they thought was worth having and what you done if you wanted to do anything, those that organised it were helpful and sensible and would help us to overcome problems that came up that flew in the face of the scheme
entry level was not so good but ok but this new lot is just stupid

I think its designed to be unworkable for smaller family/ mixed farms..

 

[Bury the Trash]

Until NE decide that they want a true partnership with landowners for environmental benefit rather than an antagonistic relationship whereby they agree to give you money to do (or not do) stuff then spend the next 5 years trying their best to take said money away from you again, then you can count me out.

to us they have been nothing but helpful,we had to change a few things last / this year .... very helpful is all i can say.

 

[parker]

personally I am really pleased with the mid tier scheme, yes its more compilicated and more work but the benefits to the farm are far more as well, and well worth the effort financially

 

[Dave645]

I sounded a bit anti nature in my last post here, which is not the case we had 150% of the points needed for ELS and had to do very little most of which is still in place I think the only thing we have dropped is low input grass on the odd field, (we deliberately maxed out on points). My problem is with the scheme managers, we would still comply with ELS now but we lose that money to modulation to this new scheme that requires different measures to get your entitlements money back, most of which is aimed at big farms that would naturally struggle to get there ELS minimum, so why is my money now been given to the farms that did a poor job for the last 50 years that created massive fields with no hedges in sight, that benefited from increased production from it all that time, why do they deserve my money to put it back............

If they want a scheme to work roll back to the old system but change the rules to hold on to your entitlement money you have to get your ELS points, if you don't they take money from you then use this money to fund HLS.
So the farmer spends his own money to do right by nature and get to the minimum ELS or they lose entitlements money.

There doesn't need to a complex system just points, and points requirements can be changed over time if results of the current ELS points target is not having an effect. They can be increased.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

^This.

Why is it they insist on schemes that require thousands of staff to implement and absorb so much of the funds and aimed at benefiting large landowners.....
Because that is what they want.

 

[Guiggs]

Well the results to the question have proved a lot more conclusive than the one I asked about the post knocker!

 

[Brisel]

I'm applying for Higher Tier. Lots of SSSIs and SAMs on the farm plus the owner already has 7% of the arable out of production for his environmental agenda so getting an income for unproductive old field corners, beetle banks is a bit of a no brainer here. It will also help fund the cover crops I want for soil health. Add capital funding for tracks and the couple of miles of hedge work we do every year anyway and it makes setting a few weeks aside to build a big claim worthwhile. Being part of a big farmer cluster group helps too.

I'm sure I'll curse some of the options I took in future years but much of this is low hanging fruit once I've got EFA areas out of the way.