Countryside stewardship... is it worth it?

[Spud]

Just looking at our situation, ELS here ends this back end. Way back when we were in CSS for 10yrs, ELS since. We have lots of small fields and hedges, and a fair amount of watercourses of one sort or another, so most of the points can be acquired from the hedges (scheme basically pays for their management) and strategic grass margins help the leraps obligations. Odd field corner or two making up the total.

Dont want an obstacle course of hoops to jump through, but some margins need to stay for leraps, and the hedgcutting bill still needs paying. Also, modulation money is taken off my bps claim, I'll have that back thanks!!

Looked at capital grants a few months back, basically we dont pollute anywhere near enough to qualify!!

Looking through the website, it does look heavy going.

Anyone know if the threat of no pesticides/fert on N fixing crops for efa's has/going to be implemented?

Cheers, Spud

 

[Feldspar]

Just looking at our situation, ELS here ends this back end. Way back when we were in CSS for 10yrs, ELS since. We have lots of small fields and hedges, and a fair amount of watercourses of one sort or another, so most of the points can be acquired from the hedges (scheme basically pays for their management) and strategic grass margins help the leraps obligations. Odd field corner or two making up the total.

Dont want an obstacle course of hoops to jump through, but some margins need to stay for leraps, and the hedgcutting bill still needs paying. Also, modulation money is taken off my bps claim, I'll have that back thanks!!

Looked at capital grants a few months back, basically we dont pollute anywhere near enough to qualify!!

Looking through the website, it does look heavy going.

Anyone know if the threat of no pesticides/fert on N fixing crops for efa's has/going to be implemented?

Cheers, Spud

No pesticides allowed on EFA crops has been passed already.

You don't get any points for hedgerows for biennial cutting now. Only for once in three years and the requirements are more stringent IIRC.

 

[Spud]

No pesticides allowed on EFA crops has been passed already.

You don't get any points for hedgerows for biennial cutting now. Only for once in three years and the requirements are more stringent IIRC.

Looks like we'll be out of stewardship then, 3yrs growth is too much, and detrimental to bird life imo. Should get efa area without beans.

 

[Henarar]

No pesticides allowed on EFA crops has been passed already.

You don't get any points for hedgerows for biennial cutting now. Only for once in three years and the requirements are more stringent IIRC.

No but on any fields you put in to mid tier you can only cut every other year and then no cutting before Jan if I remember right if you want to cut in say sept you have to go to 3 year cutting
really f**king useful if you have lots of small fields
I think we ended up on our 110 acres that without completely messing up our farming we could get about 400 quid and then we would have to beat some of the hedges all to hell every 3 years
waste of time

this thread seems to show that mid tier works best for bigger arable farmers, just as the woman that done the one to one meeting with us that was trying to sell mid tier to us said it did, mind you I could work that out for myself

It seems that those that ripped the place all to hell years ago come off better than those of us that kept our wildlife friendly farming
At the end of the day if you have no hedges you are not going to give a sh!t if you cant cut them

 

[DRC]

No but on any fields you put in to mid tier you can only cut every other year and then no cutting before Jan if I remember right if you want to cut in say sept you have to go to 3 year cutting
really fudgeing useful if you have lots of small fields
I think we ended up on our 110 acres that without completely messing up our farming we could get about 400 quid and then we would have to beat some of the hedges all to hell every 3 years
waste of time

this thread seems to show that mid tier works best for bigger arable farmers, just as the woman that done the one to one meeting with us that was trying to sell mid tier to us said it did, mind you I could work that out for myself

It seems that those that ripped the place all to hell years ago come off better than those of us that kept our wildlife friendly farming
At the end of the day if you have no hedges you are not going to give a sh!t if you cant cut them

Worth remembering that there are capital options, such as concrete for yards or roofing cattle handling , fencing, water tanks etc.
My advisor said, that because very few people applied, clients got paid some large sums for cattle tracks without doing much else.
After raging against it last year, I've done a U turn and an working on an application that if successful , will pay for some capital improvements and pay for things I do anyway, such as overwintered stubble, brassica fodder crops and a field of low input permanent pasture.( hoping to get that re fenced). I also think the 2 yr legume fallow, will pay better than any break crop on some heavier land that can't grow maize.
What I've decided to do, is go for whole field options, and remove the stress of margin measurements .
Will see what happens.

 

[DRC]

I'd also like to add,that I do quite like to see pollen and nectar areas and wild bird seed patches around the place.

 

[Feldspar]

Worth remembering that there are capital options, such as concrete for yards or roofing cattle handling , fencing, water tanks etc.
My advisor said, that because very few people applied, clients got paid some large sums for cattle tracks without doing much else.
After raging against it last year, I've done a U turn and an working on an application that if successful , will pay for some capital improvements and pay for things I do anyway, such as overwintered stubble, brassica fodder crops and a field of low input permanent pasture.( hoping to get that re fenced). I also think the 2 yr legume fallow, will pay better than any break crop on some heavier land that can't grow maize.
What I've decided to do, is go for whole field options, and remove the stress of margin measurements .
Will see what happens.

I think what you've done sounds a very sensible approach. You can make Mid Tier quite complicated for very little return, or, by choosing the right options, you can make it much simpler.

My only concern with applications this year is whether the government have committed to fund applications starting in Jan 2018 for the full term. I think their manifesto commitment towards subsidies for the full term of this parliament should be OK.

 

[Henarar]

Worth remembering that there are capital options, such as concrete for yards or roofing cattle handling , fencing, water tanks etc.
My advisor said, that because very few people applied, clients got paid some large sums for cattle tracks without doing much else.
After raging against it last year, I've done a U turn and an working on an application that if successful , will pay for some capital improvements and pay for things I do anyway, such as overwintered stubble, brassica fodder crops and a field of low input permanent pasture.( hoping to get that re fenced). I also think the 2 yr legume fallow, will pay better than any break crop on some heavier land that can't grow maize.
What I've decided to do, is go for whole field options, and remove the stress of margin measurements .
Will see what happens.

You can do some capital work without joining mid tier which is what we done just under 5k worth
I did look at this within the mid tier but there was not much I would want to take up being all PP and wanting to stay like that didn't help much if I recall correct

 

[Hindsight]

I think what you've done sounds a very sensible approach. You can make Mid Tier quite complicated for very little return, or, by choosing the right options, you can make it much simpler.

My only concern with applications this year is whether the government have committed to fund applications starting in Jan 2018 for the full term. I think their manifesto commitment towards subsidies for the full term of this parliament should be OK.

I also wonder if there might be more competition this application window as I know of a few large arable farms that railed against it in 2016 are now having applications prepared for submission this autumn. Last autumn as far as I could make out any application was successful.

 

[Feldspar]

I also wonder if there might be more competition this application window as I know of a few large arable farms that railed against it in 2016 are now having applications prepared for submission this autumn. Last autumn as far as I could make out any application was successful.

Wouldn't be at all surprised. Early birds and all that. I would have put in for much greater areas if I had known how unpopular it was going to be. As it was I went for maximum application score rather than maximum return.

 

[gone up the hill]

Worth remembering that there are capital options, such as concrete for yards or roofing cattle handling , fencing, water tanks etc.
My advisor said, that because very few people applied, clients got paid some large sums for cattle tracks without doing much else.
After raging against it last year, I've done a U turn and an working on an application that if successful , will pay for some capital improvements and pay for things I do anyway, such as overwintered stubble, brassica fodder crops and a field of low input permanent pasture.( hoping to get that re fenced). I also think the 2 yr legume fallow, will pay better than any break crop on some heavier land that can't grow maize.
What I've decided to do, is go for whole field options, and remove the stress of margin measurements .
Will see what happens.

Are you going to graze these over wintered brassica crops @silverfox ??

Because if you read the small print for them it says that you CANNOT poach the field/ graze it down to have mud showing/ suplementry feed the animals etc etc, total unworkable.

Thou fine if you have a 10 acre field and want to graze it with 10 sheep for a week or two then top the rest of the crop back in.

Doesn't the field of low input pasture if grazed have to be keep between a min of 6 and no more than 21 inches high for most of the area for the entire summer??

Take the options for ancient scheldud monuments, they only qualify if you don't have any stone tracks within 15 meters ( might be feet ) of them, again unworkable..

 

[DRC]

Are you going to graze these over wintered brassica crops @silverfox ??

Because if you read the small print for them it says that you CANNOT poach the field/ graze it down to have mud showing/ suplementry feed the animals etc etc, total unworkable.

Thou fine if you have a 10 acre field and want to graze it with 10 sheep for a week or two then top the rest of the crop back in.

Doesn't the field of low input pasture if grazed have to be keep between a min of 6 and no more than 21 inches high for most of the area for the entire summer??

Take the options for ancient scheldud monuments, they only qualify if you don't have any stone tracks within 15 meters ( might be feet ) of them, again unworkable..

The brassicas will only be a percentage of the overall amount that we grow, so leaving quite a bit of wriggle room. We did the same in HLS for ten years without any problems.

 

[gone up the hill]

The brassicas will only be a percentage of the overall amount that we grow, so leaving quite a bit of wriggle room. We did the same in HLS for ten years without any problems.

Yep but a farm that only puts in 20 acres or a farm that currently doesn't grow any winter crops wont be able to use the option and also graze the crop and the payment figures from the Mid Tier are so low that it isn't worth growing over wintered brassicas unless you can graze them at some point.

 

[DRC]

Yep but a farm that only puts in 20 acres or a farm that currently doesn't grow any winter crops wont be able to use the option and also graze the crop and the payment figures from the Mid Tier are so low that it isn't worth growing over wintered brassicas unless you can graze them at some point.

I agree that a lot of the options aren't suitable , but depends how you want to farm. We will graze ours, as we always have done in HLS ( if successful) and manage it accordingly.
If you want to fatten lambs, with feeders on the field and lambs covered in mud, it's not for you.

 

[gone up the hill]

I agree that a lot of the options aren't suitable , but depends how you want to farm. We will graze ours, as we always have done in HLS ( if successful) and manage it accordingly.
If you want to fatten lambs, with feeders on the field and lambs covered in mud, it's not for you.

That sums up the current mid tier scheme 100%.

If your a livestock farm then even if your semi intensive the mid tier options 1 are unworkable and 2 the payment rates for the options like above just aren't high enough to warrant planting said crops and taking land out of production.

Take low input spring cereal crops, the payment rates are diabolical and unless you are a hobby farmer/ on very poor land with no rental value then no one is going to sign upto that option.

I don't think I have ever seen a scheme that has been designed so badly and unworkable as the current mid tier scheme.

Not that I could apply if I wanted to as been waiting over 6 weeks for an application pack...

 

[DRC]

That sums up the current mid tier scheme 100%.

If your a livestock farm then even if your semi intensive the mid tier options 1 are unworkable and 2 the payment rates for the options like above just aren't high enough to warrant planting said crops and taking land out of production.

Take low input spring cereal crops, the payment rates are diabolical and unless you are a hobby farmer/ on very poor land with no rental value then no one is going to sign upto that option.

I don't think I have ever seen a scheme that has been designed so badly and unworkable as the current mid tier scheme.

Not that I could apply if I wanted to as been waiting over 6 weeks for an application pack...

That's disappointing, as I was told it may be three weeks, but they emailed a pack next day and a paper copy within a week.
You must've thought something was worthwhile to bother asking for a pack.

 

[colhonk]

I thought it was designed deliberately to be unworkable so they could say, LOOK, Farmers are not interested in the environment,then use the money they steal off use to waste on some other +++++++.

 

[gone up the hill]

I thought it was designed deliberately to be unworkable so they could say, LOOK, Farmers are not interested in the environment,then use the money they steal off use to waste on some other +++++++.

Looks very much like the above I hate to say.

 

[gone up the hill]

That's disappointing, as I was told it may be three weeks, but they emailed a pack next day and a paper copy within a week.
You must've thought something was worthwhile to bother asking for a pack.

Yea quite a few options looked like they would suit me when I looked online, but after taking a much more detailed look at the conditions of each option that might apply a green tick for each one became a red cross one after the other when I started reading the pay rates and more importantly the rules that applied in the small print for each option.

The scheme is bad for farmers and bad for the environment/ wildlife.

A scheme like this should be that 90% of farmers are eligible/ can make it work so apply, not the current case when only 10% of farmers ( at best ) are eligible/ can make it work on a practical level.

 

[farmer james]

Yea quite a few options looked like they would suit me when I looked online, but after taking a much more detailed look at the conditions of each option that might apply a green tick for each one became a red cross one after the other when I started reading the pay rates and more importantly the rules that applied in the small print for each option.

The scheme is bad for farmers and bad for the environment/ wildlife.

A scheme like this should be that 90% of farmers are eligible/ can make it work so apply, not the current case when only 10% of farmers ( at best ) are eligible/ can make it work on a practical level.

I have to agree with your last sentence @GUTH. This thread shows the low interest in the Mid-tier compared to ELS, have worked as an advisor on stewardship for 12 years. Last year 6000 acres out of ELS only 600 applied for Mid-tier, how is that good for the environment?
ELS worked if NE had wanted more in field options why did they not just rejig the points for options or increase the threshold?
Farmers understood the system the mapping worked and it was not competitive. Much better all round.
FJ