Cover crop soil movement vs no movement

I really don't see why anyone thinks cover crops are in anyway helpful to sort a BG problem - never have

Cover crops are all about building organic matter and soil biology and nothing to do with weed control at all

Exactly.

So why are the supply trade pushing cover crops on grass weed farms?

Because they can see spring crops looming so want to carry on raping the farmer in the meantime as the spring crop means reduced spend anyway.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Exactly.

So why are the supply trade pushing cover crops on grass weed farms?

Because they can see spring crops looming so want to carry on raping the farmer in the meantime as the spring crop means reduced spend anyway.

because they can make money out of it ? this surprises you ?
 

clbarclay

Member
Location
Worcestershire
If a cover crop is terminated before it sets viable seed, does it matter if it has weeds such as BG growing in it?

I have one field in cover crop at the moment with more weeds/self sets in it than planted seeds. Drilled with a moore and rolled. Its due to go into spring wheet and when that happens all the plants currently growing in it, including the drilled peas and oats, will be become weeds.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
If a cover crop is terminated before it sets viable seed, does it matter if it has weeds such as BG growing in it?

I have one field in cover crop at the moment with more weeds/self sets in it than planted seeds. Drilled with a moore and rolled. Its due to go into spring wheet and when that happens all the plants growing in it including the drilled peas and oats will be become weeds.

danger is a decent cover crop can shade grass weeds in its bottom from glyphosate, other than that I agree it doesn't matter at all as long as CC is destroyed pre seeding of and species
 

Brisel

Member
NFFN Member
Location
North Yorkshire
Is there any merit in drilling of a cc that does not contain anything from the grass family, so that a grass weed selective herbicide can used to take out BG etc?

Our problem is spray label restrictions. The broad leafed crop would need an approval for that or any application is illegal. The other way to do it would be to plant a "normal crop" as a CC then use the herbicide in that.

There's nothing to stop you writing that crop off & replanting with something else later in the season as long as there isn't a minimum interval before planting that particular next crop. I'm thinking of herbicides like Crawler carbetamide where your following one would be one listed on the label.

What is a weed? Only something growing where it isn't wanted...
 

Pedders

Member
Location
West Sussex
Our problem is spray label restrictions. The broad leafed crop would need an approval for that or any application is illegal. The other way to do it would be to plant a "normal crop" as a CC then use the herbicide in that.

There's nothing to stop you writing that crop off & replanting with something else later in the season as long as there isn't a minimum interval before planting that particular next crop. I'm thinking of herbicides like Crawler carbetamide where your following one would be one listed on the label.

What is a weed? Only something growing where it isn't wanted...

you can take out cereal volunteers from a cover crop surely ..if it has something like rape or stubble turnips in it ?
 
Our problem is spray label restrictions. The broad leafed crop would need an approval for that or any application is illegal. The other way to do it would be to plant a "normal crop" as a CC then use the herbicide in that.

There's nothing to stop you writing that crop off & replanting with something else later in the season as long as there isn't a minimum interval before planting that particular next crop. I'm thinking of herbicides like Crawler carbetamide where your following one would be one listed on the label.

What is a weed? Only something growing where it isn't wanted...

Anybody using a chemical program in a cover crop is bonkers.

We've put some pellets on one begrudgingly and in hindsight what on earth were we thinking. It's plain stupid.

I've seen one cover crop had fertiliser, a spray and some pellets. That farmer has just been conned again by his serviced agronomist ........... I can just predict the conversation now ........... Agronomist: "let's plant a spring crop because margins are tight and we can sort the grass weed issue out".

The sheep: "oh good idea, shall I take my pants down now or after next harvest?"

Agronomist: "best leave them on for now as I need to sell you a cover crop, some fertiliser, chemicals and pellets to keep it growing, then next spring I'll sell you some seed, more chemicals, more fertiliser. Then I'll sell you a full program for winter wheat the year after because you'll think we sorted the grass weed problem out, when in reality I've just prolonged the money I'm earning from you for a while longer"

[emoji15][emoji15][emoji15][emoji15] Jesus ........
 
you can take out cereal volunteers from a cover crop surely ..if it has something like rape or stubble turnips in it ?

That's exactly what i do when drilling forage rape after cereals. The rape can either be purely as a cc, which is not common in NZ, or for grazing. As far as I'm concerned, eliminating volunteers is good practice since you grow better than twice the rape crop over winter with no green cereal leaf re infecting next cereal (if there is one).

Warksfarmers diatribe is amusing if not a little cynical, although I guess that scenario does happen. While I take your point regarding money spent on a lowly cc, surely if it's worth growing, it's worth nurturing it a little for the reasons above.
 
Our problem is spray label restrictions. The broad leafed crop would need an approval for that or any application is illegal. The other way to do it would be to plant a "normal crop" as a CC then use the herbicide in that.

There's nothing to stop you writing that crop off & replanting with something else later in the season as long as there isn't a minimum interval before planting that particular next crop. I'm thinking of herbicides like Crawler carbetamide where your following one would be one listed on the label.

What is a weed? Only something growing where it isn't wanted...

So in terms of 'spray label restrictions', I don't fully understand how spraying grass weeds, including cereal volunteers, could be illegal. This is since those target weeds would be on the label, and I'm fairly sure that brassicas is also on the label, in this country at least..... your restrictions may be tighter there.
 
Update is where the soil was moved the mustard is twice as big providing more soil cover clearly reducing the weed pressure underneath.

ImageUploadedByThe Farming Forum1445002922.491561.jpg
 

tw15

Member
Location
DORSET
For every germinated blackgrass or other weed that is growing is one less from the seed bank as long as it is destroyed before it sets seed . Thats got to be a good thing surely doesn't matter whether it is in a covercrop or not .
 

Andy Howard

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Ashford, Kent
Agrovista trials show less BG in spring wheat after covercrop than after multiple stale seed beds. Yes they are selling seeds but it makes sense to me. Bare soil over winter and multiple doses of round up is bonkers to me. Lee, I don't understand why you would spend time and money establishing a cover and then watch it be eaten by slugs and refuse to put on pellets because you think there is a agtrade conspiracy and you are going to show them you are having none of it by refusing to save your covers.
Covers need to be cheap no argument there but they also need to be looked after.
 

RBM

Member
Arable Farmer
Agrovista trials show less BG in spring wheat after covercrop than after multiple stale seed beds. Yes they are selling seeds but it makes sense to me. Bare soil over winter and multiple doses of round up is bonkers to me. Lee, I don't understand why you would spend time and money establishing a cover and then watch it be eaten by slugs and refuse to put on pellets because you think there is a agtrade conspiracy and you are going to show them you are having none of it by refusing to save your covers.
Covers need to be cheap no argument there but they also need to be looked after.
Similar findings from Agrii at Stow on what is a horrendous Blackgrass trial site, they were getting less Blackgrass in the subsequent spring wheat crop from an autumn cover crop than where they had done multiple stale seedbeds in the preceding autumn,
 

Sonoftheheir

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
West Suffolk
I lightly cultivated our stubbles,broadcast home saved mustard seed then rolled it.

Had to spray some barley stubbles with fusillade. There was just too much barley coming through. With hindsight I should have sprayed earlier as it is very noticeable that behind the combine the mustard hasn't grown very well because of the barley.

Did not have the same problem behind wheat.

We've been using mustard as a cover crop for over 20 years and have had mixed results using the above method. In some years it has just been too dry to get a decent crop and sometimes we've been too late in getting it on.
Years ago we used to plough and drill the cover crop! And I was thinking we really should start thinking about drilling it again to get a better establishment.(not ploughing)

I guess my point is you have to get a decent crop for it to do any good. If that means spraying then do it. The benefits far out way the cost of a little Chem in the long term.
 

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