Cover crops for sheep on an arable farm

[unlacedgecko]

I need to take more of a leaf out of your book. I get too desperate for ground and turn into a Teddy bear when I'm in front of most land owners that's slowly changing though
I like what I see of what you do with sheep and your system. Similar to what I'm trying to do with cattle, only I'm doing a rubbish job of it!!

I only show the good bits on social media. The reality is a total sh!t show.

 

[ImLost]

I only show the good bits on social media. The reality is a total sh!t show.

That's why I don't show anything on social media....
....my entire life is a sh!tshow!!

 

[unlacedgecko]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1489969515106607110

 

[andybk]

Ah ok. I get you.


In my eyes yes. But many arable farmers think they're doing me a favour allowing me to pay them for grazing their cover crop.

Many would rather burn diesel topping than let sheep on for free. Their trainset their rules. If I don't like the rules I just don't play.

we are the same , the agronomist is the one you need onside , try and collar him if you see him out , arable boys take everything they say as gospel, a lot of the resistance to sheep come from them , a lot used to get a kickback of the chem boys i recon , along with the way pre-em spray worked .

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

we are the same , the agronomist is the one you need onside , try and collar him if you see him out , arable boys take everything they say as gospel, a lot of the resistance to sheep come from them , a lot used to get a kickback of the chem boys i recon , along with the way pre-em spray worked .

yes, you only do what they say once, like spraying off quite a nice cover crop because it had blackgrass underneath.

I would never do that now, or worry about compaction from sheeps' feet.

 

[DanM]

yes, you only do what they say once, like spraying off quite a nice cover crop because it had blackgrass underneath.

I would never do that now, or worry about compaction from sheeps' feet.

I love it when agronomists play the compaction card, when being anti-sheep… landowners tend to realise their game, when you point out the weight of modern machinery they’d rather be used instead of a 35kg+ lamb

 

[Anymulewilldo]

It’s quite refreshing, I’ve had 3 different arable outfits this last month ask if I want too have some sort of arrangement with sheep for the winter/spring. Only 14-18 miles away too! Sounds promising, they are saying all the right things.

 

[andybk]

It’s quite refreshing, I’ve had 3 different arable outfits this last month ask if I want too have some sort of arrangement with sheep for the winter/spring. Only 14-18 miles away too! Sounds promising, they are saying all the right things.

yes def sea change this year , defra going to pay arable for green cover so they will need it knocking back over winter , just finding cheapest way of doing it ,
on a different note i have just picked up fences on one piece that was planted with barley / wheat/ st / rape / vetch , sheep took it right down a month ago ,will be put to a maize crop next , but lovely clean cover coming back no bare patches from cereals . couple ins high just ready to go
, i wondered if you put the brassicas in with a proper winter cereal crop not over thick and grazed it on a low stocking rate , whether it would work if left to grow , we have grazed forward straight cereal but not a mix . is there a disease issue ? just thoughts !

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Problem is that normal drilling time is too late for brassica. I have heard of people going earlier with a mix even in August and spraying out everything except the cereal element if it's deemed to have established properly. So you might get someone to try that, depending on the bydv risk/ attitude to risk and how worried they are about what the neighbours think.

 

[unlacedgecko]

yes, you only do what they say once, like spraying off quite a nice cover crop because it had blackgrass underneath.

I would never do that now, or worry about compaction from sheeps' feet.

I love it when agronomists play the compaction card, when being anti-sheep… landowners tend to realise their game, when you point out the weight of modern machinery they’d rather be used instead of a 35kg+ lamb

Sheep can cause significant capping issues if they're not moved regularly enough, which is defined by weather and soil type.

 

[DanM]

Sheep can cause significant capping issues if they're not moved regularly enough, which is defined by weather and soil type.

Capping and compaction are very different things. I’m yet to see a sheep cause compaction requiring remedial action to a soils structure

 

[unlacedgecko]

Capping and compaction are very different things. I’m yet to see a sheep cause compaction requiring remedial action to a soils structure

One of my landowners ran his own store lambs one year. 400 lambs in a 60ha field for weeks on end.

Significant capping which severely impacted following barley yields.

 

[DanM]

One of my landowners ran his own store lambs one year. 400 lambs in a 60ha field for weeks on end.

Significant capping which severely impacted following barley yields.

Sounds like a clued up farmer

 

[unlacedgecko]

Sounds like a clued up farmer

Very clued up. That's why I run sheep on their ground, leaving them free to focus on their core business of arable cropping.

 

[neilo]

One of my landowners ran his own store lambs one year. 400 lambs in a 60ha field for weeks on end.

Significant capping which severely impacted following barley yields.

My sheep always cap the surface on heavy soils here, sometimes down to several inches if it rains all winter. I do stock quite heavily and they are expected to clear up though as I don’t have 500ac of crops to go at.

I always cultivate the surface (with a Shortdisc these days) before drilling Spring Barley to break that cap.

 

[Fubar]

Are there club root issues with drilling brassica cover crops in an arable rotation containing osr?

 

[neilo]

Are there club root issues with drilling brassica cover crops in an arable rotation containing osr?

Yes, I believe so. Hence all the fancy ‘non-brassica’ mixtures being sold for crazy money.

 

[DanM]

Are there club root issues with drilling brassica cover crops in an arable rotation containing osr?

Oats and vetch is a good alternative, that won’t break the bank, if osr is in the rotation.

 

[ollie989898]

I love it when agronomists play the compaction card, when being anti-sheep… landowners tend to realise their game, when you point out the weight of modern machinery they’d rather be used instead of a 35kg+ lamb

What fudging moron of an agronomist reckoned sheep would cause compaction? The old boys used to graze sheep on arable land since Christ was a cowboy!!

 

[DanM]

Very clued up. That's why I run sheep on their ground, leaving them free to focus on their core business of arable cropping.

It comes down to communication. Surface capping isn’t going to be an issue if the arable crop is going to receive some form of cultivation pre-drilling.
We have grown our winter grazing to circa 400 hectares. Largely by listening to what is required. Each grower establishes their following crop differently, quite often using different techniques for different fields. A guy growing roots sold on a headache rate before maize, will want you to remove every last bit of leaf and bulb to maximise his income, before he plasters it in sh!t and ploughs or strip tills it and isn’t worried about capping. Drive across his field sinking up to the axles to pick up a dead lamb and he probably won’t have you back!