Cover Crops: Validity / Grazing Issues?

[Baling Hay]

Yea but we have to sell something? Thats our business! I get your point tho if the cover crops are for the purpose of soil building etc. I like the idea of something paying for the seed/establishment and it being cost neutral, and they do leave some nice readily available fert behind.. There is pros and cons to the whole thing.

The extra yield and reduced cultivations probably more than pay for the cover crop, plus less fertiliser inputs.

I grant though that you have grassland which you can move the sheep to when it gets wet but a lot of arable men don't have that so maybe grazing is not really a big bonus for them?

 

[JNG]

The extra yield and reduced cultivations probably more than pay for the cover crop, plus less fertiliser inputs.

I grant though that you have grassland which you can move the sheep to when it gets wet but a lot of arable men don't have that so maybe grazing is not really a big bonus for them?

yea I do, but no sheep, last year we took in 150 of a neighbours ewes, ewes are bigger than lambs but less likely to break out IMO. Dont know if the farmer in question or any farmer would think of moving from pedders mixes back to grass and back again, how does diet changes affect sheep? I have no idea. I do have cattle but would only graze these in a very dry Autumn. My instincts would tell me for most arable men to stay clear of livestock, might tire them out a bit? Ill wait to be scorned there!

 

[neilo]

The other thing to remember that by grazing cover crops you are actually removing nutrients from the field. Think of the energy lost due to respiration by the animal and then the carcass leaves the field.

Isn't it something like 90% that passes straight through the grazing animal?

 

[Baling Hay]

Isn't it something like 90% that passes straight through the grazing animal?

I remember reading a study that found that beef cattle remove about 25% of nutrients whilst sheep removed about 20%. I think the study was done in Australia and it was about grazing cover crops, they were advising not to graze them out there as they need as much soil cover as possible to prevent wind erosion but if they were to graze sheep would be best.

 

[BSH]

I'm sure it is not 25%! I will try to find some info to back up my assertion!

 

[Tim May]

I really mucked up my soils grazing pedders mix on light chalky ground this winter. Set stocked 400 lambs on 18 ha. The cover wasn't the best and it was grazed pretty hard. 1 shallow cultivation didn't work any better than dd all the cultivation did was make 3" lumps. I'm not happy with either though. This time I'll try to get a bigger root mass by establishing pedders mix earlier and keep an eye on slugs. Then I'll have to manage grazing traffic and pressure. It think the season had something to do with it too I've not had it before with stubble turnips.

 

[JNG]

I really mucked up my soils grazing pedders mix on light chalky ground this winter. Set stocked 400 lambs on 18 ha. The cover wasn't the best and it was grazed pretty hard. 1 shallow cultivation didn't work any better than dd all the cultivation did was make 3" lumps. I'm not happy with either though. This time I'll try to get a bigger root mass by establishing pedders mix earlier and keep an eye on slugs. Then I'll have to manage grazing traffic and pressure. It think the season had something to do with it too I've not had it before with stubble turnips.

Similar probs here, although land is free draining the high Ca low Mg levels, the soil is open and prone to poaching a bit more, yes it will dry out quick but during the wet spell they sink more than maybe in heavier (better structured) soils. Does that make any sense? Id imagine the chalky soil you are speaking about might react similar?? Also agree more trash and more roots from better/earlier establishment will help support the stock.

 

[neilo]

Bear in mind that most areas have just had the longest, wettest winter, after the longest, wettest 'summer', for a very long time. Grazing in a 'normal' winter would be very different and with heavier cover crops from better/earlier establishment.

I wouldn't make too many decisions based on this last winter.

 

[BSH]

I'm sure it is not 25%! I will try to find some info to back up my assertion!

From what I can find on a quick search, cattle can remove 25-30% of the nutrients by grazing BUT they deposit 75-90% of that 25-30% back as dung and urine.

 

[Baling Hay]

From what I can find on a quick search, cattle can remove 25-30% of the nutrients by grazing BUT they deposit 75-90% of that 25-30% back as dung and urine.

have you any links on that info?

 

[BSH]

http://rcrec-ona.ifas.ufl.edu/pdf/publications/ona-reports/2012/or10-12.html
http://www.dardni.gov.uk/ruralni/ugs_dpdb.pdf

Couple of links here.

 

[BSH]

http://hubcap.clemson.edu/~blpprt/pasture/uptake.html Another one

 

[Baling Hay]

From what I can find on a quick search, cattle can remove 25-30% of the nutrients by grazing BUT they deposit 75-90% of that 25-30% back as dung and urine.

From reading those links it states that cattle can remove up to 30% of the nutrients by grazing. It does not state that 75-90% of that is returned back as dung and urine. The 30% removed is the net after the returned nutrients have been accounted for.

 

[Baling Hay]

If you didn't sow fertiliser or have clover or something in pasture even with grazing livestock it is not long until that land gets hungry!

 

[BSH]

From reading those links it states that cattle can remove up to 30% of the nutrients by grazing. It does not state that 75-90% of that is returned back as dung and urine. The 30% removed is the net after the returned nutrients have been accounted for.

Perhaps I am mis reading it. The first link has a paragraph further down that says the return of nutrients is 70-90%. which contradicts the 70% at the start of the article.The other links give higher return of nutrients depending on the nutrient.

 

[JD-Kid]

always heard 10% loss by grazeing eather retained by animals or lost when changed in to gas etc

i might be a tad thick but even if the cover crop is rotted down there will be losses then grain sold off along with straw if not returned are also a loss

the cover crops are realy only mopping up min etc that could be leached and giveing cover from enviromental factors to be blunt if you could have put in a combineable crop that works in with a rotation you would realy be doing the same thing

the N unless it's a great N fixing short term plant and over winter there would be bugger all that would fix any extra N ,they may up take plant useable nitrates etc and store them

 

[In the mud]

Young growing animals will remove more than mature animals on maintance diet. I think older animals more like 10 percent. Grazing management will make difference as well