Covid jab - is it compulsory?

honeyend

Member
I admit I am biased about this. I have nursed people in ITU, and the majority are there though no fault of their own, you get the odd overdose, or one who I vividly remember, the drunk driving out a pub car park, but most people, like me become unexpectedly ill and need intensive support, and would never put themselves in that position again, and would do anything to avoid it, and that includes people who have already been admitted in to hospital with covid. People who had covid at the start of the vaccination programme, badly enough to have spent weeks in hospital, put aside their fears that they may have side effects, when the vaccine was relatively new, were almost first in the queue. If you have been extremely ill, and spent weeks in hospital, you often have PTSD type symptoms.
I try not to get frustrated with people, but when there is talk about how the NHS or care services is not available when they need it, I really do wonder it they have joined the dots up. I went back to work after my illness, I have a NHS pension, because I want to help other people to make choices, so they can live well and independently for as long as possible. When people make poor health choices, my dad did this and he died young, it effects the whole family.
Anyway, this explains in more depth than I can, my point.
 

primmiemoo

Member
Location
Devon

Thousands and thousands of people are reporting their experiences of covid vaccination. This part is about the covid boosters 👆
 
If you now work within the NHS, you won't have a choice, will you?
No jab, no job?

I'm not currently doing any paid work but I suspect I will be obliged to have a booster at some stage or they could theoretically withhold all my clinical placements.

Having had 2 jabs already it would perverse to decline or refuse a third. I would prefer it to be Pfizer though.
 

Ffermer Bach

Member
Livestock Farmer
I'm not currently doing any paid work but I suspect I will be obliged to have a booster at some stage or they could theoretically withhold all my clinical placements.

Having had 2 jabs already it would perverse to decline or refuse a third. I would prefer it to be Pfizer though.
just read an article in the Telegraph saying AZ gives a far better long term T Cell response

If the Pfizer vaccine is less durable, it might explain why countries with apparently similar levels of vaccination to the UK - but with Pfizer the predominant jab - are now experiencing higher levels of hospitalisation and deaths. The seemingly better T-cell response that comes from the AstraZeneca vaccine may mean it gives longer protection, despite an apparently inferior initial antibody response.
 
just read an article in the Telegraph saying AZ gives a far better long term T Cell response

If the Pfizer vaccine is less durable, it might explain why countries with apparently similar levels of vaccination to the UK - but with Pfizer the predominant jab - are now experiencing higher levels of hospitalisation and deaths. The seemingly better T-cell response that comes from the AstraZeneca vaccine may mean it gives longer protection, despite an apparently inferior initial antibody response.

I have no doubt the AZ vaccine does generate a strong T cell response.

But I have read articles talking about the longevity of the effect conferred by the Pfizer vaccine:


(Reuters) - The following is a roundup of some of the latest scientific studies on the novel coronavirus and efforts to find treatments and vaccines for COVID-19, the illness caused by the virus.

mRNA vaccines spur lymph nodes for longer-term protection

Along with inducing antibodies for immediate defense, mRNA vaccines against COVID-19 also stimulate the lymph nodes to generate immune cells that provide protection over the long term, a new study confirms. The early wave of antibodies are generated by B cells called plasmablasts. In healthy volunteers, blood tests showed that two doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine induced "a strong plasmablast response," said coauthor Ali Ellebedy of Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis. The immune cells that will produce antibodies upon exposure to the virus in years to come - called memory B cells - are generated by germinal center B cells found only in lymph nodes near vaccine injection sites, his team explained in a paper currently undergoing peer review for possible publication in a Nature journal. In repeated biopsies of volunteers' lymph nodes, "we saw a robust germinal center response," Ellebedy said. The responses lasted at least seven weeks, "with no sign of cooling down anytime soon," he added. "While we do not have long-term samples yet, it is safe to assume given the magnitude and persistence of the germinal center reaction that those individuals will develop a durable immune response" to mRNA vaccines. Moderna Inc's vaccine also uses mRNA technology. (bit.ly/3tnAiYw)
 
I have no doubt the AZ vaccine does generate a strong T cell response.

But I have read articles talking about the longevity of the effect conferred by the Pfizer vaccine:


(Reuters) - The following is a roundup of some of the latest scientific studies on the novel coronavirus and efforts to find treatments and vaccines for COVID-19, the illness caused by the virus.

mRNA vaccines spur lymph nodes for longer-term protection

Along with inducing antibodies for immediate defense, mRNA vaccines against COVID-19 also stimulate the lymph nodes to generate immune cells that provide protection over the long term, a new study confirms. The early wave of antibodies are generated by B cells called plasmablasts. In healthy volunteers, blood tests showed that two doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine induced "a strong plasmablast response," said coauthor Ali Ellebedy of Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis. The immune cells that will produce antibodies upon exposure to the virus in years to come - called memory B cells - are generated by germinal center B cells found only in lymph nodes near vaccine injection sites, his team explained in a paper currently undergoing peer review for possible publication in a Nature journal. In repeated biopsies of volunteers' lymph nodes, "we saw a robust germinal center response," Ellebedy said. The responses lasted at least seven weeks, "with no sign of cooling down anytime soon," he added. "While we do not have long-term samples yet, it is safe to assume given the magnitude and persistence of the germinal center reaction that those individuals will develop a durable immune response" to mRNA vaccines. Moderna Inc's vaccine also uses mRNA technology. (bit.ly/3tnAiYw)
After having had the first 2 AZ (Vaxzevria) in February and April and had an blood antibody test which recorded no sign of antibodies I got my Pfizer booster in October and took another antibody test which came back reassuringly positive.
I considered myself eligible to apply for the antibody test as I attend hospitals and care homes for collections and deliveries on an ad-hoc basis.
 

thorpe

Member
mrs thorpe and i had 2 az jabs and just had moderna booster thusday 8 00 am arms ached like feck friday mrs couldnt get out bed till after 10 am but ok later . saturday i felt like shlt but it was a rotten day! anyway all ok now.
 

D14

Member
I had my first vaccine (AZ) in march and it put me in bed for 10 days. I felt terrible and the first night we very nearly called an ambulance to be honest. I have never ever felt like that before. I have so far not had the 2nd vaccine or obviously the booster. In October I was contacted by the NHS to have an antibody test as I had only had one vaccine. I did the test and it came back confirmed that I had in fact had CV probably in August. I knew nothing about it as I had no symptoms. We were not doing twice weekly LFT because in august the children were not at school. So no symptoms, no LFT tests meant no PCR test, so no idea I had had it. I followed it up with the NHS whether my march AZ vaccine could be why I was showing a positive antibody test. They were adamant that there was no way that is correct and that I had a variant of CV in my system that was in the UK in July and August. They named it but I can't remember what it was.
Then mid november on a sunday I could not get warm and was shivering extensively. Did a LFT test and it was negative so thought nothing of it because that was not a CV symptom. Did another LFT on the tuesday and again negative. Did one on the Thursday and it came up positive within a few seconds. Booked a PCR for the friday and on the Saturday it was confirmed positive along with my youngest, but not my oldest or other half. NHS on the phone and they backdated me to the sunday meaning I only actually did 5 days in isolation. During those 5 days the LFT test were positive up until the very last day when it went negative so obviously the NHS knew what they were doing date wise.
I had one day, saturday where I did feel quite rough and very similar to how I felt from the AZ vaccine in march. However other than that one day I felt ok other than a bit run down as the main symptom. The NHS has now asked me again to do a antibody test which arrived yesterday so thats todays job. Clearly it will come back showing antibodies so that means I have now had CV twice and out of the combined 20 days of supposed symptoms I had one day where I did feel rubbish. Where as I had 10 days of feeling like proper crap from the vaccine.
So thats my story and at the moment I have no desire to have another vaccine and I do now think there is more to this than meets the eye. One think I can't get my head around though is that the government are up to no good, because all they are doing is hurting themselves with future lost votes and also a major financial crisis of the country. It just does not make sense for a government to basically push the self destruct button so if there is something dodgy going on it must be coming from the UK science advisors but again whats the reasoning behind them doing this unless they are being duped by the world health organisation.
 

primmiemoo

Member
Location
Devon
Glad you're feeling better, @D14 , and hope you and the rest of your family stay well.

If this virus had anything to be cunning with, it would be much more cunning than a dodgy government. Our government has taken a hybrid approach to stopping our "share" of the pandemic, so it's bound to be a more jumbled process than groups of countries which took harder or softer actions.
 

D14

Member
Glad you're feeling better, @D14 , and hope you and the rest of your family stay well.

If this virus had anything to be cunning with, it would be much more cunning than a dodgy government. Our government has taken a hybrid approach to stopping our "share" of the pandemic, so it's bound to be a more jumbled process than groups of countries which took harder or softer actions.

Yes I can see that but we do seem to be worse off than many other countries. Ok we do have a higher population figure than some others but I still am not sure this is what it actually is. Having had it twice then I have the antibodies so why should I be classed as a person without a covid passport.
Now it actually does not bother me presently because I wouldn't normally attend any events such as a concert or sports fixture and I have to say I am not bothered about travelling abroad presently. However I would be bothered if in January i can't go into a pub or restaurant for example or can't go to a theme park or zoo with the children. And what I will not tolerate is my children having to have the vaccine as for me its not an option in any way at all at the ages of 12 and 8. I kept my eldest off school the day the did the vaccines because they school were really pushing the children to have it via Gillick Competance. I have since learned that on that day out of 900 children in the school there was 440 off school. Of the remainder in school I have no idea if they did or did not have the vaccine but I think the talking to fellow parents I would go as far as saying maybe only 20% had it.
 

JeepJeep

Member
Trade
Booster Saturday just gone.. Moderna on top of the first 2 AZ's. Sore arm and that was it.

Wifi signal has Increased throughout the house and if I hold my phone in the left arm *Jab Arm* the signal is now immense:D
 

primmiemoo

Member
Location
Devon
Yes I can see that but we do seem to be worse off than many other countries. Ok we do have a higher population figure than some others but I still am not sure this is what it actually is. Having had it twice then I have the antibodies so why should I be classed as a person without a covid passport.
Now it actually does not bother me presently because I wouldn't normally attend any events such as a concert or sports fixture and I have to say I am not bothered about travelling abroad presently. However I would be bothered if in January i can't go into a pub or restaurant for example or can't go to a theme park or zoo with the children. And what I will not tolerate is my children having to have the vaccine as for me its not an option in any way at all at the ages of 12 and 8. I kept my eldest off school the day the did the vaccines because they school were really pushing the children to have it via Gillick Competance. I have since learned that on that day out of 900 children in the school there was 440 off school. Of the remainder in school I have no idea if they did or did not have the vaccine but I think the talking to fellow parents I would go as far as saying maybe only 20% had it.
Some good news: immunity from the wild virus is included in eligibility for a pass, although there are some exceptions ~


With vaccination of children, it's the decision of their parent or guardian. It isn't compulsory.
 

D14

Member
Some good news: immunity from the wild virus is included in eligibility for a pass ~


With vaccination of children, it's the decision of their parent or guardian. It isn't compulsory.

I know its not compulsory and we did not agree to it. But the school then took it upon themselves to start talking about it regularly trying to convince the pupils that it was the 'right and responsible' thing to do. We then had a letter detailing Gillick Competence which basically said your child can decide to have it even if you have not agreed. The school talking about it went on for weeks and it was even being dropped into lessons. Totally inappropriate and I along with numerous parents complained to the head of year and also the head teacher and we have never had any form of response. It just looks and feels underhand.
 

primmiemoo

Member
Location
Devon
I know its not compulsory and we did not agree to it. But the school then took it upon themselves to start talking about it regularly trying to convince the pupils that it was the 'right and responsible' thing to do. We then had a letter detailing Gillick Competence which basically said your child can decide to have it even if you have not agreed. The school talking about it went on for weeks and it was even being dropped into lessons. Totally inappropriate and I along with numerous parents complained to the head of year and also the head teacher and we have never had any form of response. It just looks and feels underhand.

That's a tricky one, isn't it. The school does have a duty to make sure that pupils are informed of options, and might be standing up to misinformation, or even disinformation circulating in its catchment.

ETA, Gillick Competance is in place for good historic reasons.
 

D14

Member
That's a tricky one, isn't it. The school does have a duty to make sure that pupils are informed of options, and might be standing up to misinformation, or even disinformation circulating in its catchment.

My view is that they have that duty with regards to their education such as Maths or English etc. That duty does not run into a public health pandemic because they do not have Covid lessons ........... yet! Children cannot vote or become an adult until they are 18 years old so come under the direction of their parents until that time. And whilst I am not for one minute saying they should be not allowed to make any decisions by the parents, its about the parents allowing them to make decisions about certain things. For example the HPV vaccine has been proved to be an absolute requirement because of 30 years worth of data and trials etc. The CV vaccine had no proper trials and certainly has no time to be proven.

We all know that schools are predominantly left wing anyway. They have been for 15 years pushing a very liberal labour train of thought about everything. I just think a school should be unbiased with absolutely everything they do. They should not have a view that is pushed onto impressionable minds who are already worried about CV just from what they have seen occur over the last 2 years. Its scaremongering and underhand and is very controlling. Does the government want to control us, but have realised they can't control many adults but they can start the process of controlling the children so when they become adults its already in place. Who knows?
 

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